http://rationalists.wordpress.com/2010/07/20/islamic-cultural-centr...

This is the final straw. How many died at Ground Zero. I cannot imagine how I would feel knowing that people will be praying at the very site to a god who through their belief of him had a part in this evil event,..if I had lost a loved one.
 Is this the beginning of the end.
 What do you think?

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Just want to say that this whole debate has been tainted by misinformation so it shouldn't be a debate in the first place.

Its not a "mosque" its a community center with activities for children and educational programs. The "mosque" is simply an inter-faith prayer room. All this is is to stoke Islamaphobia in this country which is beneficial for right wing conservatives who use scare tactics for votes. I ask everyone, If it was a baptist church who wanted to build a church next to a bombed abortion clinic, would there be the same controversy. This is a joke, both sides ranting about which imaginary friend is better. As an atheist i have no problem with hard working-kind and helpful Americans, whether religious or not. Lets just call it this debate what it is and that's equating all Muslims and Islam with terrorism. Religion isn't the SOLE cause for terrorism, there's a lot of different aspects at play (economics, political instability, brain-washing propaganda etc..) Atheists should use this opportunity to say that without any religion there wouldn't be this division, does the crusades ring a bell?
I see we are not coming to any agreement. We all think we are right and those with opposing views are wrong.
Lets wait and see.
I understand the Church will now burn the Koran, so on and on we go.
This is just the way of the World and until we all agree to live along side each other in peace however much we discuss this nothing will change. .
No-one is trying to say religion is wrong it is those who practice for evil, and religion is an excuse, and again this is always how it will be.
Peace to all..
I agree with this! And I don't believe Sam Harris is completely off base for insisting that we regard Islam with special concern. But that shouldn't mean any other religion gets a pass, either.
Michel and Bill you put it better than me, and totally agree with everything you say. Religion is wrong.

I dont really think I made myself clear . I do not want to have arguments with those of religion as I think it is a waste of time. . I believe religion is the worse attrossity causer and excuse for evil, and that those who believe in it have been indocrinated. ,and whatever any of us say their minds will not be changed.
Hope that is clearer.
Cracked.com introduced me (and many others) to the 5-Second Clips (or whatever they're called). Where can I find all of them? What's their web site?
http://5secondfilms.com/

Oh, but beware. They are addicting.
Thank you! And the good thing about becoming addicted to something that lasts 5 seconds is that I have plenty of time to indulge in it. :)
That's what I say about sex!
Thunderf00t, who I have always seen as a bastion of reason and light on Youtube, takes a surprising stance on this. Well, surprising to me, at least.


The crux of his argument is that since "they" do it (be intolerant), "we" should to? Wow. I would expect a better argument than that from him.

Not only that, he is pointing to the religion as practiced in other countries. That seems about as relevant as making direct comparisons between Christians in Michigan and Christians in Nigeria. No one goes around haranguing American Christians because of atrocities performed by Nigerian Christians.

Now, to be fair, Tf00t is not saying that they should not have freedoms. He is merely repeating the same mantra from other freedom loving people who want to limit freedoms of others. "They have every right to build it, but..." Sorry, Tf00t. Rights are not conditional. And if his whole point is that they will be seen as jerks because of it and that is all he is saying, then why the hell make a video? Uppity blacks were seen as jerks, too, when they marched for equal rights. Freedom and the ability to practice freedoms is not about popularity. Rights are not conditional or subject to limitations because of popular opinions. And if Christian churches were treated to the same scrutiny anywhere where Christians performed atrocities, then maybe it wouldn't reek of xenophobia as much as it does.

I apologize if this has been posted in this thread already, but I feel this says it ALL.
Finally! Someone who nails it. (I may have to rethink my opinion of The Amazing Atheist)

You know what is funny that I notice about the popular atheists/rationalists/secularists that are most adamantly opposed to the "ground zero mosque"? From Tf00t to Pat Condell to NonStampCollector...they are not Americans.

Thanks for sharing the video!

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