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Permalink Reply by Johnny on April 3, 2010 at 11:42am

What's the point of the concept of free will without consequences? I want my decisions to have a consequence or result - be it good, bad, minute, or monumental.

So far no one has proven that there is an afterlife; let-alone proven that our actions, choices, and free will decisions will have consequences in said afterlife. Better to make choices for the here-and-now, for this life, and for those you care about.

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Permalink Reply by Johnny on April 3, 2010 at 11:43am

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid." ~ Marcus Aurelius

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Permalink Reply by Wesley on April 3, 2010 at 11:49am

I've always loved this quote.

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Permalink Reply by Chrissi Ashby on April 3, 2010 at 6:08pm

If God did not exist it would be necessary to invent Him.
- Voltaire

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Permalink Reply by Radu Andreiu on April 3, 2010 at 6:50pm

Man created God in his own image, not the other way around. So God... actually every god and goddess was created in man's image, if not physically too, surely "spiritually". Humans actually invented God just as Voltaire said.

Surely you must think that some people invented gods as you believe these thousands of other gods than the Judeo-Christian one don't exist. If so, then you already are 99% atheist, but you seem so unwilling to go that one step further. Why should all these religious, non-Christian people be delusional, but Christians so right? I hope you realize that you would have believed in another god if you were born in another particular country and/or in another time frame.

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Permalink Reply by Wesley on April 3, 2010 at 7:41pm

This is actually what happened... People invented him...and her..and other variations. This is why there are so many forms.

This question isn't 'Whether God or not'.... it is.... from what information database did the God concept arise from? From what information did the God proposals grow out of? How did Gods/God evolve?

Ancestor Worship, Nature Spirits, Mountain spirits, ('El Shaddai'?) God grew out of the same category of everything we did not have an answer for. We projected an answer for these questions in the form of an almighty being who had the power to 'do' it. As our understanding broadened...so also did our conceptualization of God/Gods.

But it wasn't all just outer conjecture.... There's the human psyche too. Strange experiences, dreams, projections, etc.. These also play a hand not only in the god hypothesis but all supernatural conjecturing.

The meditating yogi actually does experience 'leaving his body' and rising into the various levels of 'heavens'. Thus the yogi has lost all fear of death for he/she believes they have already experienced and traveled around in the afterlife realms. The same is true for Christian mystics and visionaries who believe they have experienced 'heaven' in dreams and during deep prayer. I personally can vouch for the phenomenalogical reality of these perceptions......it is just the 'ultimate' definitions and factual proclamations about them where I draw the line.

Here's an interesting article. http://www.bidstrup.com/mystic.htm

We are learning more and more about our neural architecture everyday...and the nature of perception and learning and memory.

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Permalink Reply by Mario Rodgers on April 4, 2010 at 2:15am

Are you kidding me? There's no free will in either religion OR heaven. If you found yourself in heaven, to be happy you'd have to be forced to forget all the suffering endured by countless innocent people both on earth and in hell. In religion, if your free will is absolute, it negates the omnipotence and supposed almighty power of God. If somebody prays for something, and God manipulates the flow of time and thus the people to ensure that the chain of events falls as necessary, then free will is NOT guaranteed.

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Permalink Reply by Dave G on April 4, 2010 at 4:10pm

Frankly, we ought to be able to make choices that harms no one else without fear of reprisal right now. If I choose to have a ham sandwich instead of turkey for lunch, and no one harmed by that choice, why should I fear reprisal?

Sure, that's a very minor and unimportant choice, but it is a choice that can be made without fear (aside from nutritional concerns, perhaps). I really don't see any difference between the choice of which sandwich to eat and choosing to pick up sticks on a Sunday or who someone chooses to marry.

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