Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by diggerbanks on June 23, 2013 at 9:14am

That is why I am putting forward the Earth as the most appropriate object of worship.

It creates us, it shelters us, it feeds us, it is the only reason for our existence. And it's real.

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Permalink Reply by Ray R. on June 23, 2013 at 10:46am

Why do you feel the need to worship something ? Speaking for myself , ( and probably many others here ) I certainly feel no such need .

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Permalink Reply by Unseen on June 23, 2013 at 9:10am

Why not make Earth our deity? For the same reason we don't make any other rock our deity. It itself is dead. It may be crawling with life at the surface, but the planet itself is just a big dead rock. On what basis would YOU make a big rock your god? Gotta hear, 'cause it's bound to be silly.

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Permalink Reply by diggerbanks on June 23, 2013 at 9:54am

Lol, is it? Well I said it already in the OP but oh well, in for a penny...

We are Earth matter

Earth LITERALLY makes us, houses us, feeds us, protects us and offers us so much wonder and inspiration

Earth lives,

I cannot believe that anyone with intelligence would describe Earth as a dead rock.

Where do you find wonder? Where do you see great power that is worthy of our awe?

You can't find joy in deconstructing all the time. 

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Permalink Reply by Unseen on June 23, 2013 at 11:02am

Earth LITERALLY makes us, houses us, feeds us, protects us and offers us so much wonder and inspiration.

Oh, then there are lots of gods. Someone might view his parents, his wallet, his/her breadwinning wife/husband, or his job as his god, for example. 

As I said, the Earth is a rock. It has life everywhere on its surface, but what evidence do you have that this rock is in any way AWARE of this life or even of ITSELF?

Removing the accretions of religious myth, like so many mental barnacles...what could possibly be MORE joyous...huh, huh, huh?

I don't need to believe a myth of a living rock to experience wonder. If you do, I find that rather sad. 

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Permalink Reply by diggerbanks on June 23, 2013 at 11:35am

All right, let's not bitch slap each other. Maybe I am allowing more romance into the equation than you are willing. 

The Gaia Principle is science. James Lovelock.

Earth is our home. Every single one of us ever in our existence has lived on Earth and no where else. It is the only undeniable apart from death.

The thing about removing those mental barnacles is that in doing so you sometimes expose holes that need filling or you will sink (given that the barnacles are on a boat)

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Permalink Reply by Unseen on June 23, 2013 at 12:33pm

All right, let's not bitch slap each other. Maybe I am allowing more romance into the equation than you are willing. 

Romance has no place in a scientific discussion. It's the enemy of skepticism. If you can't take some spirited debate, you're going to find being here in TA a very harrowing experience.

The Gaia Principle is science. James Lovelock.

Lovelock is a kind of attention whore, and that particular statement is obviously metaphorical or poetic and not intended as an empirical statement. Also, I wonder how many geologists are lining up behind that personification? Almost none, I'd wager.

Earth is our home. Every single one of us ever in our existence has lived on Earth and no where else. It is the only undeniable apart from death.

I live in a house. I don't think of my house as a deity. 

The thing about removing those mental barnacles is that in doing so you sometimes expose holes that need filling or you will sink (given that the barnacles are on a boat)

Apparently you missed the point of my barnacle metaphor. Barnacles load a boat down and reduce it's hydrodynamics (the efficiency of its hull).

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Permalink Reply by Ed on June 23, 2013 at 1:02pm

Dead? 

Spewing mountains of lava from deep within on a daily basis certainly warrants a characterization a little warmer than dead.

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Permalink Reply by Unseen on June 23, 2013 at 3:15pm

From the position of your post (checking the indentations), you seem to be replying to the OP, and yet the gist of your post implies you are talking to someone else. Who might that be? Me? 

Okay, let's say it's me. There's nothing self-contradictory about calling a planet with volcanoes dead. There are many volcanoes on dead bodies in our solar system. The main example is probably Jupiter's moon Io, the most volcanic body in our solar system. 

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Permalink Reply by Wesley on June 23, 2013 at 9:23am

The Sun was once such an explanation.  The sun gave us life and without it we could not survive.  That's still true, but the sun will run its cycle with or without our worship  

I certainly appreciate the sun and the earth but feel no need to call either god.  

You may be looking for something more along the lines of Scientific Pantheism..

http://www.pantheism.net/paul/science.htm

 

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Permalink Reply by Wesley on June 23, 2013 at 9:31am

http://www.pantheism.net/paul/basic-principles.htm

"

Divine cosmos, sacred earth.

Pantheism has two central tenets:

The cosmos is divine.   The earth is sacred.

When we say the cosmos is divine, we mean it with just as much conviction, emotion and  commitment as believers when they say that their god is God.   But we are not making a vague statement about an invisible being who is beyond proof or  disproof. We are talking about our own emotional responses to the real universe and the  natural earth.

When we say "That tree is beautiful," we are not saying anything about the  tree in itself, but about the way we feel we must respond to the tree. We are talking  about the relationship between us and the tree.   In the same way, if we say THE UNIVERSE IS DIVINE we are making a statement about  the way our senses and our emotions force us to respond to the overwhelming mystery and  power that surrounds us. We are saying this:

We are part of the universe. Our earth was created from the universe and will one day    be reabsorbed into the universe.     We are made of the same matter as the universe. We are not in exile here: we are at home.    It is here and nowhere else that we can see the divine face to face. If we erect barriers    in our imagination - if we believe our real home is not here but in a land that lies    beyond death - if we believe that the divine is found only in old books, or old buildings,    or inside our head - then we will see this real, vibrant, luminous world as if through a    glass darkly.     The universe creates us, preserves us, destroys us. It is deep and old beyond our ability    to reach with our senses. It is beautiful beyond our ability to describe in words. It is    complex beyond our ability to fully grasp in science. We must relate to the universe with    humility, awe, reverence, celebration and the search for deeper understanding - in other    words, in many of the ways that believers relate to their God.

When we say THE EARTH IS SACRED, we mean it with just as much commitment and  reverence as believers speaking about their church or mosque, or the relics of their  saints. But we are not making a statement about the supernatural. We are saying this:

We are part of nature. Nature made us and at our death we will be reabsorbed into    nature. We are at home in nature and in our bodies. This is where we belong; this is where    we must find and make our paradise, not in some spirit world on the other side of the    grave. If nature is the only paradise, then separation from nature is the only hell. When    we destroy nature, we create hell on earth for other species and for ourselves.

Nature is our mother, our home, our security, our peace, our past and our future. We    should treat natural things and habitats as believers treat their temples and shrines, as    sacred - to be revered and preserved in all their intricate and fragile beauty.

The dominant religions describe their gods in many ways: mysterious, awesome,  all-powerful, omnipresent, transcendent, infinite, eternal. These descriptions are not  simply projections of human characteristics. The traditional attributes of God are  based on the real properties of the universe (see The real divine attributes.)

When theists worship gods, they unknowingly worship the cosmos. If they believe that  God is also present in nature and the universe, they will perceive a part of the glory of  Being, yet still they will attribute this glory to something beyond Being. Still they will  fail to connect with nature and the universe in the deep intense way that pantheism makes  possible.

But theists who believe that God is separate from the universe separate themselves from  Reality. They turn their deepest attention away from the real divinity before their eyes,  towards an imaginary divinity inside their head. It veils Reality like a thick mist. It  turns believers into sleepwalkers."

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Permalink Reply by Rick Yost on June 23, 2013 at 11:48am

A piece from my website:

Anti Earth
What if we are imagining we are something we’re not? What if we are simply creations of the Earth itself? What if we are betraying our creator by foolishly putting human-crafted religions before her? What if any belief system created by man is an affront to nature itself? What if any religion we create is against our true path to Earth, similar to the Antichrist; corrupting, misleading and taking us far from the simple truth?

What if, we are being fooled into believing? What if ‘belief’ is “The abomination that causes desolation”? What if the simple, gifting, testing, cleansing and nurturing Earth is our real mother and we’ve been too busy praying to the sky?

www.rickyost.com

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