Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Apple on July 21, 2010 at 5:07pm

Yes, I was just going to ask, "which god?" You choose christanity's god as if it is the default and has any more truth value than any mythologies.

There is no sense discussing the "mind of god" since we have no evidence at all for this god. But, we can discuss the christian god within the context of their myth. This all depends on what christian you ask. The bible would clearly point to "no" on this one. But I'm sure there would be some christians out there who would feel this is possible. It's all up to whatever the people want to hear. If I thought there was a market for a more forgiving market, I could start a church and preach this myself. But all this is doing is expanding on mythology, and has nothing to do with the actual universe in which we live. To find real answers about reality we have to do real work.

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Permalink Reply by Jānis Ķimsis on July 21, 2010 at 6:00pm

Miniscule? I'd like to see that evidence. Sounds like a lot more than I've ever seen.

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Permalink Reply by Apple on July 21, 2010 at 6:04pm

Good point Janis. I second the motion.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Vaughan on July 21, 2010 at 8:12pm

Alright, Alright, I agree.
I also agree that, the only way to discuss this is within the context of the myth.
And I also agree that there's no point in discussing this. But, it doesn't change the fact that I still want to.

I'm not searching for answers about reality (with this question, anyway)

But, what apple initially said was along the lines of what I was looking for.

I guess the ultimate question here is "Is Atheism an unforgivable sin?"

The bible, of course points to 'Yes'. But, what do you think the general consensus of Christians would be?
After all, they do call their god "All forgiving".

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Permalink Reply by Apple on July 22, 2010 at 11:11am

Well you see, in order for these big religions to profit they have to design the story to keep you going back. Like the catholic "sin" of missing a Mass, etc. You have to be careful whenever posing these questions because there are so many different belief sets that are all "christian." But just generally speaking, most of christianity would teach that in order to be "saved" you would at least needed to "Accept Jesus in your heart as lord and savior" and "repent of your sins." And as atheists we're at minimum breaking the first commandment. So we reject the concept of Jesus as god, and we surely commit many "sins" (thought crimes, etc) which are actually not crimes in the real world. In fact, to punnish people at all for some of the things considered "sin" would be a major human rights issue. Yet these christians have no problem with their god dishing out the punnishment for these things. (Oh, and the punnishment is inhumane and eternal)

Usually Christians don't seem to have a problem with it because they don't really consider that they will actually be facing this punnishment. I think this is part of why it is necessary in their mind to keep the image of an "atheist" as an evil, and immoral person. They don't want to change that idea, because it means that god is punnishing good people forever.

Your question basically boils down to: "Do christians believe that their god will allow non-christians into heaven?" With respect to this, most christians fall into one of these three categories:

1) The "Jesus saves" christian. This christian will not address the question even if asked directly. They talk only about the love and mercy of their god, and simply dismiss any questions that make them feel uncomfortable. They don't want to think about what they already know. That their all merciful god is not merciful.

2) The "fire and brimstone" christian. This christian absolutely believes that the majority of the world's population will be tortured forever while their community enjoys eternal paradise. They get a sick pleasure out of this idea.

3) "Cultural" christians. These people just go through the motions and hardly actually believe any of it. A prayer is like a lucky rabbit's foot. Maybe it'll give you that little extra push when you've done all you can. They want to see grandma again someday and that's about it. C & E, if they can manage it. To such people, being a good citizen means being christian. They are completely secular in every other way and really give little thought to these issues.


Now, if you ask priests or pastors, they should tell you that there is no hope for atheists after death. But, never put it past a priest to be dishonest with you.

Let's face it, if you could just live your life the best you could, and then meet up with a creator at the end of it and have a heart-to-heart, and have everything be ok, then why dish out 10% of your income so that these preachers don't have to get real jobs? Plain old scare tactics.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Vaughan on July 22, 2010 at 11:22am

Apple, Youre my hero.

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Permalink Reply by Christopher McGuire on July 22, 2010 at 2:18pm

The Christian God wouldn't forgive me, for I have committed the only unforgivable sin in the bible. If you don't know what that is, I'll show you:

I deny the existence of the Holy Spirit!
(Matthew 12:31, Mark 3:29, Luke 12:10)

I'm not going to that heaven, because it ain't real. If it was, I wouldn't wanna be there anyway (I know a lotta Christian douchebags that I would NOT wanna spend eternity with), all the hookers and good drugs would be in hell. Other than the 'unforgivable sin,' the bible says that everyone will end up in heaven, technically. That's how fucking stupid Christianity is, and why the stupid fundies still think they can change us...
~Maggie

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Permalink Reply by D.M Barrera on July 22, 2010 at 6:03pm

I had a friend tell me, that because I was a Christian before-if at that time I truly accepted God into my heart- than it didnt matter that I now "denied" him. And that when I die I will go to heaven.
I told her that was awesome!
And that I would go tell the World that all they have to do is accept him truly, and then they can go and do drugs, prostitution, etc, etc. She didn't like the idea.

If it was to happen as you put it, and he was to not forgive us or to forgive us, I would like to go to hell. Because all the "good" things will be in hell - prostitutes, marijuana, homosexuals, etc Haha! While heaven would be just a bunch of coulds, with perfect people who won't shut up about god.

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Permalink Reply by willailla on July 22, 2010 at 7:59pm

God might forgive you or he might not. Depends upon whether he is having a bad hair day. In many verses Jesus [who is god by another name] claims he only came to save the Jews--everybody else be damned:

Jesus said, “I was sent only to the house of Israel.” Matt. 15:24

"These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the
Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel." Matt. 10:5-6

But, as expected, Christians drag out other verses to 'prove' he came to save everyone:

Mark 16:15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.

(Gen 12:3 NIV) I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

But at best all they accomplish is showing that their bible is full of contradictions. Other verses show that god forces people to believe a lie so he can damn them:

11"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 (King James Version)

How, one might ask, are they to know the truth if god makes them believe a lie--why not make them believe the truth, since he's violating their freewill in either case?

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Permalink Reply by Galen on July 22, 2010 at 9:26pm

If Hell exists, that's where I'll be, and I suspect it won't be so bad as it's made out to be. After all, Satan rebelled against God and completely doesn't agree with all of God's shit. I can't see such a being just going along with all of God's dumbass plans. If the mythology is true, then we atheists will be having a party for all eternity with Satan, the FSM, and motherfucking Jimi Hendrix - FUCK YEAH!

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Permalink Reply by Chelsea Sherman on August 3, 2010 at 11:37am

I would think if there is some kind of literal God, an old man in the sky, the answer would be yes. We would die and the next thing we know we'd see him. He'd laugh and say "I know, its ridiculous."

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Permalink Reply by Mike Vaughan on August 3, 2010 at 2:08pm

Exactly.

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