Let's have some fun. Play god's advocate. I thought this would be easier. Arguing for god is not easy, especially if you don't use the holy books. My best shot.

(A) I just feel god, in my heart.

I went like this for years until I admitted to myself that I was talking to myself. I was probably a result of childhood indoctrination. It' a weak argument.

(B) There has to be eternal "justice"; what is the point of being a good person. Why not just be a thief and do what ever you want to make yourself happy?

This is the best argument for god, I think. What "goes around-comes around" here on earth, but not always. Granted, it is just wishful thinking that fairness is somehow owed to us.

(C) Something had to create all this

I went with this for a while. Then I figured out that it is "small thinking" and an imposition of our limited life experience.

That's all I got. Take away the divinity of the holy books and its a hard sell. What is your best argument for the existence of god?

 

 

 

 

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The second I saw him posting links to William Lane Craig, I stopped caring or taking him even remotely seriously.

The second I saw him posting links to William Lane Craig, I stopped caring or taking him even remotely seriously.

You certainly do not want to take Craig seriously, because you have nothing on hand to reasonably question his apologetics.

No, Angelo. I don't take Craig seriously because he and his kind have been shown to be full of shit on enough occasions by people far more qualified than myself that I have no need to bother.

But you go on and keep debating with yourself, it seems to be what you are here to do, and think you are good at.

No, Angelo. I don't take Craig seriously because he and his kind have been shown to be full of shit

Oh really ?!! How have they shown this ?

But you go on and keep debating with yourself, it seems to be what you are here to do, and think you are good at.

I am not debating with myself ( sorry ??!! ) I am here to debate with atheists. I am not good, but the theistic world view indeed seems incomparably more convincing than the atheistic one.

This comes to mind. But I guess we can just as easily replace Craig with you, Angelo. You seem to be share the same strategy to "debate".

but the theistic world view indeed seems incomparably more convincing than the atheistic one.

What is the "atheistic one", Angelo? Do enlighten us. This should be rich.

I gave you evidence Angelo - I gave you Stephen Hawking - the greatest astrophysicist of his time - himself saying there's no god.

So what ?! That is his personal belief. But you did shift the goal posts, that was not what we were discussing. But since you brought that up : There are many scientists that share my views :

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/quotes.html

I gave you a link to the newspaper article about Hawking's new book,

Hawkins might be a good astrophysicist, but he is a bad philosopher, as he proves in his book.

I explained how we life-forms fine-turned ourselves to fit our universe, and you have ignored it all. You're not here to debate, or to learn anything,

And i answered your point already, and pointed out with solid scientific data, why you are wrong. Now, let us see, will you do, what you accuse me of doing , namely ignore the information that was provided to you ? And , the same question goes to you : Are YOU here to learn something, and willing to change your mind, facing the evidence i am presenting ? I will answer for you. No, you are not. That is, because its not a matter of reason, that makes you held your position, but a matter of will. You do reject God, and try to find a justification for it. But there is none. You are fully responsible for your choice.

So what you're saying, is that Hawking is someone to listen to when he's saying something that supports your argument, and of no consequence when he says something that destroys it. Gotcha!

That's really what it amounts to, and here we are, all wasting our time.

I have a good advice to you. Just stop answering me , and you won't waste your time anymore.

Hawking is not a “bad philosopher”.  He is just not a philosopher in the first place. If you had read his book “The Grand Design” you would have realised that he only talks about Science. In fact on page one he specifically says that “philosophy is dead”. That is, we have no need of it any longer because we have Science.

Most of us don’t reject your God. We just don’t believe you or in your God.

But if I were to do that, Angelo, who would there be to hold up the mirror, so you can see what you look like to others?

I don't know. The best I can do is think about what arguments a theist might have for god. The real ones I mean, the ones they don't say out loud:

I'm scared of things I don't know, and I'm scared of death. I don't want to accept that death will be my end, I want there to be more for me, and I want it to be about me specifically. I want to feel like I'm the center-point of a bigger plan that involves the entire universe. I want to belong to a community, because alone I have no skills or interesting personality traits to offer, so I need something to define myself by, like race or religion. In short, I need a tribe. A tribe of people who don't understand and are scared of the same things I am. When I am confronted with anything foreign that I do not like, I want my community to back me and join me in my relentless crusade to crush it. I want to push my own ideas of what is good and bad on others by means of intimidation, bribery, propaganda, force and blackmail, but I still want to feel justified and even morally superior while doing so, so I need an excuse. A higher authority I can use as a front for my own selfish hatred. I also don't like to be responsible for my own actions, and I also have a strong and juvenile sense of entitlement to vengeance, so when what I consider to be bad people get away with what I consider to be crimes I want there to be higher authority to judge them even after death. I don't want to spend a lot of time coming up with my own ideas or morals.

I am not a theist based on what i do not know, but based on what i do know. How about you ?

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