Let's have some fun. Play god's advocate. I thought this would be easier. Arguing for god is not easy, especially if you don't use the holy books. My best shot.

(A) I just feel god, in my heart.

I went like this for years until I admitted to myself that I was talking to myself. I was probably a result of childhood indoctrination. It' a weak argument.

(B) There has to be eternal "justice"; what is the point of being a good person. Why not just be a thief and do what ever you want to make yourself happy?

This is the best argument for god, I think. What "goes around-comes around" here on earth, but not always. Granted, it is just wishful thinking that fairness is somehow owed to us.

(C) Something had to create all this

I went with this for a while. Then I figured out that it is "small thinking" and an imposition of our limited life experience.

That's all I got. Take away the divinity of the holy books and its a hard sell. What is your best argument for the existence of god?

 

 

 

 

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Don't know, never met her, but I adore the way she arranged my pelvic nerves !

Take away the divinity of the holy books and its a hard sell. What is your best argument for the existence of god?

Take away the divinity and the holy books, and it's actually quite an easy sell: naturalistic pantheism. God is nature itself. God is all concrete things, all finite beings, the substance of the Universe, the aggregate of all unified natural phenomena. No magic, no supernatural, but what is real and true. That is more than enough. 

It is annoying when people label things "god", it strips away the underlying understanding of life, the universe and everything. Thats why being athiest...one throws the use of the word in the dustbin because of its discrepancies and primative thinking censoring how things, life and everything works which science explains in other words.. the phrase "my shit" can be interpreted as "my god", or we are living in a big God... it is just simply nonsensical, as when using it when calling things god, you have your perception and others have a different picture totally what your on about, where you are expressing nature and they think you talking about that imaginary male entity.... calling things god makes things less specific and more vague.

So it seems you believe, the Universe exists eternally, without a beginning ?

So it seems you believe, the Universe exists eternally, without a beginning ?

No I don't believe that. Neither does it "seem like" I do, since I said absolutely nothing of the kind.

I accept that the best evidence we have tells us that the universe began with the big bang.

therefore pantheism cannot be true.

therefore pantheism cannot be true.

How does the big bang disprove naturalistic pantheism?

Pantheism states, that nature is identical with God. If nature had a beginning with the big bang, then God himself had a beginning as well. Since God by definition is a necessary being, he cannot have been created.

Pantheism states, that nature is identical with God. If nature had a beginning with the big bang, then God himself had a beginning as well. Since God by definition is a necessary being, he cannot have been created.

God "by definition" in naturalistic pantheism is all of nature. All of nature apparently originated with the big bang. There is no incompatibility there.

You're trotting out the standard, tiresome game of "let's change the definition of God". You say no, God isn't THAT definition, because God is THIS definition instead.

The last contestant redefined God as a postulate-- something that does not exist in empirical reality-- and thus entirely imaginary. What a hoot that one was.

Okay, my turn!

God, by definition, is a pepperoni pizza. So you're wrong. He HAD to have been created.

Now you go!

So, lets say pantheism is true. What caused God and nature into being ?

So, lets say pantheism is true. What caused God and nature into being ?

Nature IS true.

I told you what caused it: the big bang.

@ Angelo-The language of causation only makes sense in a temporal reference. Now  if time(and space) began with the big bang then talking about the cause of the big bang would be like asking how much does yellow weigh. Ie entirely nonsensical.

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