Let's have some fun. Play god's advocate. I thought this would be easier. Arguing for god is not easy, especially if you don't use the holy books. My best shot.

(A) I just feel god, in my heart.

I went like this for years until I admitted to myself that I was talking to myself. I was probably a result of childhood indoctrination. It' a weak argument.

(B) There has to be eternal "justice"; what is the point of being a good person. Why not just be a thief and do what ever you want to make yourself happy?

This is the best argument for god, I think. What "goes around-comes around" here on earth, but not always. Granted, it is just wishful thinking that fairness is somehow owed to us.

(C) Something had to create all this

I went with this for a while. Then I figured out that it is "small thinking" and an imposition of our limited life experience.

That's all I got. Take away the divinity of the holy books and its a hard sell. What is your best argument for the existence of god?





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Yes, that's exactly what it means. We have a word for "we don't know" and that is ignorance. We cannot draw valid conclusions from our ignorance.

There is not only black , and white. There are many grey shadows between. The more science goes forward, the more we have data on hand to draw secure conclusions, even if they are not empirical or conclusive proofs. That evidence we examine to conclude what scenario might be the most realistic one.

What scientific evidence are you referring to? There is no scientific evidence for what was "before" the big bang.

The mere fact that we have secure evidence on hand today, that the universe most probably had a beginning, opens the door for philosophical discussions and deductions.

For example :


Firstly, it must be noted that since there is nothing prior to the cause of the universe, it cannot be explained scientifically, as this would imply the existence of antecedent determining conditions. Hence, because there are no prior determining conditions, the cause of the universe must be personal and uncaused. Moreover, the cause must transcend space both matter and time to create both matter and time. It must also be changeless, since there was no time prior to the creation of the universe. Interestingly enough, this also lends credibility to the notion that the cause was personal, for how else could a timeless cause give rise to a temporal effect? It seems that the only way this could be possible is if the cause was a free agent who has the ability to effect a change; for if the cause of the universe was impersonal, then it would not have created. Finally, in order to create the universe ex nihilo, this cause must be enormously powerful, if not omnipotent. One is warranted in concluding that therefore, God exists.

Your reasoning didn't hold water either.

Which one ?

Don't tell me you have scientific evidence for God. You don't.

Tell me, why the mere existence of the universe cannot be used as evidence for Gods existence. Why should God be excluded as possible explanation for its existence ?

This from his link to the Kallam Cosmological Argument:

"The temporal, kalam cosmological argument, dates back to medieval Muslim philosophers such as al-Kindi and al-Ghazali. It has recently been restored to popularity by William Lane Craig.

William Lane Craig - one of the biggest con men in the business - wouldn't ya just know it?!!

I believe a intelligent designer is the best explanation for our existence.

It doesn't matter to science whether God did anything or not, because God is not a scientific explanation. Even if one presumes that God did it, science is about explaining how.

People can believe what they want, but "God Did It" has no scientific value, whatsoever.

If God did it, the scientific question will still always be "how".

Ouch, I'm repeating myself!

People can believe what they want, but "God Did It" has no scientific value, whatsoever.

What has ?

Seriously, you're asking "what has" scientific value? I could mention millions of books, or the millions of man-years that have gone into designing computers we're using to type every letter into these messages, and transmit them... medicine, transportation, electricity and electrical appliances, heating houses during the winter...

Really, what are you asking, exactly?

Quantum mechanics.

Then why call it god, when nature/natural has such a nice ring to it?

You know I've always wondered if there was a God.

And now I know, and it's me!


For one to be god, is life would have to be a video game, and you would have to have all the cheat codes enabled.

Robert, in reply to your (B) There has to be eternal "justice"; what is the point of being a good person. Why not just be a thief and do what ever you want to make yourself happy?

Have you concluded that the sheriff has resigned his job and thrown away his jailhouse keys?


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