Are you an atheist who belives in freewill. Or are you long past believing in the concept of freewill? I cannot imagine being a non-theist and still believing in freewill so I am curious how you feel about the concept.

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I have gone around and around with this free will thing.

 

I have not decided exactly where I stand on the matter. I like to say there is no such thing as "true" free will, because if there was, my wishes would come true because that would be what I would want to happen. 

 

Since the option to have my wishes come true is not avaiable to me, there is no such things as true free will. Free will generally means to be able to do what you want to do within a range of options. "True" free will would mean you can do what you want to do (period).

Oh, we can do some things that we want to do, but why do we want to do them? Can we decide what we'll want before actually wanting it? What would this decision be based on, if not yet another desire?

Anyway, thinking about this issue in terms of the macro universe leads people to silly conclusions. Every single of our fundamental constituents is a total slave to the laws of physics, so whenever you move your body, the particles that make you are moving as they should according to the laws of physics and their previous states. It's just that, being an awful lot of particles in the world, there is an enormous number of arrangements in which they can exist in any macroscopic volume of space and that's why things are so diverse and hard to predict in the macro world, even if they're much simpler on the smallest of scales.

Radu wrote: 
Oh, we can do some things that we want to do, but why do we want to do them? Can we decide what we'll want before actually wanting it? What would this decision be based on, if not yet another desire? (end of snippet of Radu's post)

 

I know there are times we have the opportunity to make a decision that brings us complete contentment for a time.

 

What I meant, by saying true free will, would mean you can do what you want to do. This would be impossible for me, because I would wish for all suffering to stop existing immediately, for all.

 

I think most people, if they had one wish that could come true, would wish the same thing. I guess if Christians think their God has true free will, I don't understand why they don't understand, he did not make a good decision when he chose to create everything as he did, because of all the suffering that exists. And I don't want to hear all this "without suffering we would not be able to be happy bull crap" beause I am talking about really severe, pointless suffering.

 

For example, why does a baby die in agony and I live to be 50 years old with a lot of goodness in my life?  In the scheme of things for the Christian concept of God, this example points out the pointlessness of his "grand design". What was SO worth the suffering of that baby? What?

 

Instead, he (the Christian concept of God) chose to allow suffering in unspeakable degrees, for billions of beings, for a very long period of time. So either, in the Christian concept of God, he does not have true free will; or he has it, and he is sadistic and a liar; or there is no such God as the Christian concept of God. Take your pick.

It has been my observation that when a question leads to contradictory conclusions, you are either asking the wrong question, or there is some aspect or "piece of the puzzle" of which you are unaware.

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