Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by oneinfinity on June 10, 2011 at 3:19pm

probably the thing most likely to influence your (illusionary) decision is the level of sunspot activity on the previous day.

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Permalink Reply by Jewelz on June 10, 2011 at 7:25pm

Even identical twins will look different and have slightly different voices and body language so something would attract you to one over the other. But I'll assume hypothetically they were exactly identical in every way and saying the same phrases simultaneously so neither got your attention first while holding out identical bags at the same time. Perhaps you looked to the left first because you grew up in a culture reading from left to right. Perhaps the sun caught the metal on one of the bags and made it sparkle. Perhaps you're right handed and more likely to hold cash in your right hand which would put the bag on the right closer to you, so you gravitate towards that one. Or, most likely, you would hold out the cash and let whichever twin grabbed the money first make the decision for you.

 

Regardless, a lot more subconscious things go into this kind of "conscious choice" than people realize.

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Permalink Reply by Dustin on June 11, 2011 at 1:11am

just read your response after I wrote mine. I like your thinking ;)

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Permalink Reply by Dustin on June 11, 2011 at 1:08am

I am pretty sure left or right makes a large decision here. Everyone has a dominant eye ... or a dominant hand. You may feel quite obliged to reach out to the bag of which is being carried on your right side if you are right handed. Or if your strong eye is your right eye.

You asked me , so that's my answer. I didn't just make it up , either. The body itself will make some of the decisions here.

And most of us didn't 'choose' to be an Atheist. It's more that we just couldn't accept the absurdity of religious claims.

If somebody tells you they have a pink unicorn in their wallet , is it really a CHOICE to not believe the claim? I don't think it is a choice at all. It think it's just an immediate response you move too because a world of reality makes more sense.

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Permalink Reply by ☼ Doctor Reality ☼ on May 30, 2011 at 10:46pm

Why can yo

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Permalink Reply by Mike Glickman on May 30, 2011 at 9:39pm

I find this topic fascinating but I'm a bit agnostic on it. I agree with Doug's point about having certain choices but not others. It is possible, as the good Dr. Suggests, that we are all machines and reality is an illusion, but I don't see that logic and reason mandate that. That said, I'm not particularly well read on this topic, so if you have an example that could enlighten me, please do so.

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Permalink Reply by ☼ Doctor Reality ☼ on May 30, 2011 at 9:52pm

Dr. Suzanne Blackmore http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/ is a great place to start. Also Chris Evat's book "The Myth of Freewill" http://www.crisevatt.com/myth.htm is a very simple straightforward primer on the subject. Poke around Thomas Clarks site at http://www.naturalism.org/

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Permalink Reply by Mike Glickman on May 30, 2011 at 9:54pm

Thanks for the leads.

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Permalink Reply by ☼ Doctor Reality ☼ on May 30, 2011 at 10:10pm

Enjoy, it is fascinating stuff...

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Permalink Reply by oneinfinity on May 30, 2011 at 10:24pm

somewhere in between "free will" and "determinism"

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Permalink Reply by ☼ Doctor Reality ☼ on May 30, 2011 at 10:51pm

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/morality-without-free-will/  Add a bit of Sam Harris for good measure.

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Permalink Reply by Isaac on May 31, 2011 at 11:44am

Humans, as well as other animals, are essentially big bags of particles that are governed by the laws of physics. I don't really see how one can really be free/have free will, when we are ultimately constrained to physics. I've heard some compatibility argue that even if what we do is pre-ordained by physics, we still have free will, but I think is like saying that subatomic particles or billiard balls have free will, even though their motion can be predicted mathematically. With subatomic particles, it's predicted in probabilities, since there is a lot of apparent randomness at that level, but I certainly wouldn't say that the particles are free to choose what they do. I do not think that determinism and free will can be compatible.

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