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Permalink Reply by ☼ Doctor Reality ☼ on May 30, 2011 at 8:09pm

So like Dan Dennet we are good flying object avoiders. No offense but I just see that attitude as a cop out. Not quite ready to succumb to the reality that we are machines with absolutely no control. All is an illusion made up by our brains.

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Permalink Reply by ☼ Doctor Reality ☼ on May 30, 2011 at 8:20pm

Alleging, ha, no I am quite sure we are nothing more than machines. Consciousness is just an illusion.

Nihilists are not that sophisticated in their thinking, LoL!

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Permalink Reply by ☼ Doctor Reality ☼ on May 30, 2011 at 8:23pm

:-) 

 

Peace to you my friend.

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Permalink Reply by kris feenstra on May 31, 2011 at 6:55pm

Consciousness, in its most basic sense, is awareness of one's own existence.  How can you be illusorily aware of your own existence?  That's a paradox.

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Permalink Reply by ☼ Doctor Reality ☼ on May 31, 2011 at 12:19am

I agree, I was never arguing a point. I am sorry if I mislead you.

I have no doubt we are nothing more than machines, but I will leave it up to the professionals to "prove" it.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Reardon on May 30, 2011 at 9:14pm

Personally I think we are free to make some choices, but not all.  I did not choose to be an atheist, it is what I am, but I can choose whether to have a PB&J or a baloney sammich for lunch.

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Permalink Reply by Dustin on May 30, 2011 at 10:21pm

I would consider arguing with you that your body , what you ate the past week , the weather , the amount of time you have to prepare either item , how healthy you feel like being that particular day ... so many previous states of being and reality that are ALL factors in your 'free will' decision.  

 

Something like this:  If you per chance you know you don't have enough time to cook spaghetti and meatballs for lunch , but DO have enough time to slap together a sandwich , you don't really choose the sandwich.  It's just rational to do so based upon other factors.  It just makes sense to not be late for work and make a quick sandwich.  Or your body could wake up one morning and just decide it wants peanut butter.  That 'craving' one get's sometimes when they think about a certain food item ... subconscious feelings about health .. etc.  

 

I compare this to the fact you didn't 'choose' to be an Atheist.  It is just the most rational decision based upon evidence and reality.  

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Permalink Reply by John Cortesy on June 10, 2011 at 3:00pm

OK, call me stupid here, but if what you say is true, that we did not choose to be atheists, then those inflicted with religion did not choose their worldview either. Correct?

 

I understand your PB&J sandwich reasoning, but explain this. If I am standing on a corner and a pair of identical twins are calling to me to sell me a  knockoff Gucci bag with the exact same phrase, neither louder than the other nor closer to me than the other, wearing the exact same clothes, using the exact same body language, if I really want that Gucci bag I will have to chose one. What previous state could you image that would influence my decision?

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Permalink Reply by oneinfinity on June 10, 2011 at 3:19pm

probably the thing most likely to influence your (illusionary) decision is the level of sunspot activity on the previous day.

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Permalink Reply by Jewelz on June 10, 2011 at 7:25pm

Even identical twins will look different and have slightly different voices and body language so something would attract you to one over the other. But I'll assume hypothetically they were exactly identical in every way and saying the same phrases simultaneously so neither got your attention first while holding out identical bags at the same time. Perhaps you looked to the left first because you grew up in a culture reading from left to right. Perhaps the sun caught the metal on one of the bags and made it sparkle. Perhaps you're right handed and more likely to hold cash in your right hand which would put the bag on the right closer to you, so you gravitate towards that one. Or, most likely, you would hold out the cash and let whichever twin grabbed the money first make the decision for you.

 

Regardless, a lot more subconscious things go into this kind of "conscious choice" than people realize.

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Permalink Reply by Dustin on June 11, 2011 at 1:11am

just read your response after I wrote mine. I like your thinking ;)

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Permalink Reply by Dustin on June 11, 2011 at 1:08am

I am pretty sure left or right makes a large decision here. Everyone has a dominant eye ... or a dominant hand. You may feel quite obliged to reach out to the bag of which is being carried on your right side if you are right handed. Or if your strong eye is your right eye.

You asked me , so that's my answer. I didn't just make it up , either. The body itself will make some of the decisions here.

And most of us didn't 'choose' to be an Atheist. It's more that we just couldn't accept the absurdity of religious claims.

If somebody tells you they have a pink unicorn in their wallet , is it really a CHOICE to not believe the claim? I don't think it is a choice at all. It think it's just an immediate response you move too because a world of reality makes more sense.

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