Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Nelson on May 30, 2011 at 8:01pm

i'm assuming by "free will" you mean contra causal free will and not, say, compatibilism. 

i of course reject contra causal free will but i'm certainly a compatibilist.

we have the freedom of our choices, they're just constrained by past states.

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Permalink Reply by ☼ Doctor Reality ☼ on May 30, 2011 at 8:09pm

So like Dan Dennet we are good flying object avoiders. No offense but I just see that attitude as a cop out. Not quite ready to succumb to the reality that we are machines with absolutely no control. All is an illusion made up by our brains.

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Permalink Reply by Nelson on May 30, 2011 at 8:12pm

then there's no responsibility?

you're alleging that there's not even an external reality? are you a nihilist?

incredible.

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Permalink Reply by ☼ Doctor Reality ☼ on May 30, 2011 at 8:20pm

Alleging, ha, no I am quite sure we are nothing more than machines. Consciousness is just an illusion.

Nihilists are not that sophisticated in their thinking, LoL!

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Permalink Reply by Nelson on May 30, 2011 at 8:21pm

LOL indeed. good luck with all that.

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Permalink Reply by ☼ Doctor Reality ☼ on May 30, 2011 at 8:23pm

:-) 

 

Peace to you my friend.

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Permalink Reply by Kris Feenstra on May 31, 2011 at 6:55pm

Consciousness, in its most basic sense, is awareness of one's own existence.  How can you be illusorily aware of your own existence?  That's a paradox.

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Permalink Reply by Greg Gorey on May 30, 2011 at 11:23pm

Calling something a cop out isn't an argument, it is actually a red herring. "Not quite ready to succumb to the reality that we are machines with absolutely no control. All is an illusion made up by our brains." this is nothing but a straw man. no offense, but you are not making any arguments, you are merely exerting your views. 

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Permalink Reply by ☼ Doctor Reality ☼ on May 31, 2011 at 12:19am

I agree, I was never arguing a point. I am sorry if I mislead you.

I have no doubt we are nothing more than machines, but I will leave it up to the professionals to "prove" it.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Reardon on May 30, 2011 at 9:14pm

Personally I think we are free to make some choices, but not all.  I did not choose to be an atheist, it is what I am, but I can choose whether to have a PB&J or a baloney sammich for lunch.

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Permalink Reply by Dustin on May 30, 2011 at 10:21pm

I would consider arguing with you that your body , what you ate the past week , the weather , the amount of time you have to prepare either item , how healthy you feel like being that particular day ... so many previous states of being and reality that are ALL factors in your 'free will' decision.  

 

Something like this:  If you per chance you know you don't have enough time to cook spaghetti and meatballs for lunch , but DO have enough time to slap together a sandwich , you don't really choose the sandwich.  It's just rational to do so based upon other factors.  It just makes sense to not be late for work and make a quick sandwich.  Or your body could wake up one morning and just decide it wants peanut butter.  That 'craving' one get's sometimes when they think about a certain food item ... subconscious feelings about health .. etc.  

 

I compare this to the fact you didn't 'choose' to be an Atheist.  It is just the most rational decision based upon evidence and reality.  

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Permalink Reply by John Cortesy on June 10, 2011 at 3:00pm

OK, call me stupid here, but if what you say is true, that we did not choose to be atheists, then those inflicted with religion did not choose their worldview either. Correct?

 

I understand your PB&J sandwich reasoning, but explain this. If I am standing on a corner and a pair of identical twins are calling to me to sell me a  knockoff Gucci bag with the exact same phrase, neither louder than the other nor closer to me than the other, wearing the exact same clothes, using the exact same body language, if I really want that Gucci bag I will have to chose one. What previous state could you image that would influence my decision?

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