Hi friends of think atheist,
You definitely have heard of this news last Monday..
France Enforces Ban on Full-Face Veils in Public.
Sorry if this has been discussed before...but It's important to hear the atheists opinion on this matter.
VÉNISSIEUX, France — France on Monday formally banned the wearing of full veils in public places, becoming the first country in Europe to impose restrictions on a form of attire that some Muslims consider a religious obligation.
read more here
I'm very interested in hearing people's opinion's on the ban..
So, what do you think?
they are dead texts, we should treat them as such.
To you & I, but not to the overwhelming majority of the people living in this world. And you can't just dismiss them completely as empty texts. They do contain some good messages.
As atheists & more importantly rationalists we should give religion its due. Agreed it has done a lot of bad, but without religion there would have not been any civilization, humans would still have been barbarians. That being said, I think the time has some for religion to step aside & let science lead humanity.
when god and religion are abolished from our thinking, what is left? Just a human brain, constructing its own models of the universe.
Erm, no. IMO moral values can be determined by science & philosophy isn't for religion. And these can't be 1-dimensional. And ofcourse there will always be things to discuss which would(should) make us think in more than 1-dimensions like which type of music is better or which movie is better, which style of programming is best & so on.
Theoretically, you are right Heather. However, in the real world that would not work.
First, there would be a serious uproar if anyone tried to ban the use of the Koran (Qu'ran) or tried to doctor it in anyway. The ban on the niqab has generated controversy and push back and that is just a small piece of religious clothing. Changes to the Muslim bible would probably spark bigger push back that could lead to violence breaking out.
Banning the bible is one thing but regulating that ban is quite another. One thing about human beings is that we are amazingly adaptive. Even if you ban the Muslim bible, the people would just find another way to smuggle it in for use. Another problem that develops is directly due to human psychology. People want what they don't have. We like the forbidden and the people may only end up holding onto their religion even tighter because of this and especially if they feel like they are being persecuted. We see this frequently with Christians and the persecution they accuse secular society of is mostly fabricated.
I think ultimately the best way to tackle the problem that is religion is through education and discourse. Show them why religion is bad and push for better education. It is pretty well known that the more educated a person is, the less likely they are to hold on to these types of superstitions. It's not a silver bullet but I think that is the best path we have at the moment.
Can we at least arrest them when they start indoctrinating the children to the idea that their teachers are lying? What do we do with the fundamentalists who opt for home education? In the USA it is very concerning that the percentage of people who don't believe in evolution is on the rise - a sign that education can be curtailed by a motivated theistic culture.
Over all I agree and hope that education and time will solve this problem. If the numbers start to run against rational though, however, at what point is it appropriate to step in? What actions would it be appropriate to take?
I think that letting them continue in their homicidal teachings for fear that they might kill us is only restatement of the initial problem, not a solution.
What do we do with the fundamentalists who opt for home education? In the USA it is very concerning that the percentage of people who don't believe in evolution is on the rise - a sign that education can be curtailed by a motivated theistic culture.
That is definitely a valid concern and one that scares me as well.I saw on YouTube that there actually a group of fundamentalist parents homeschooling their kids on Creationism and the Young Earth nonsense.
I don't know anything about homeschooling but it doesn't seem like it is regulated. The parents are free to teach their kids anything. I think the kids may have to pass a few standardized tests to be recognized as having completed an education but I'm not 100% certain. I think that regulating the home school curriculum is a possible solution to this.
Finding some way to reach and educate the parents is another avenue particularly if it is emphasized to them that what they are teaching their children will put them at a severe disadvantage in society. Kids who are brought up this way may find it more difficult to get into secular colleges, for example, which will directly impact their earnings potential.
Can we at least arrest them when they start indoctrinating the children to the idea that their teachers are lying?
I think a case could be made that teaching children to kill people who don't agree with them is abusive and potentially a chargeable offense. Enacting a law like that would probably force religion into the courtroom to defend teaching children these types of beliefs. This in turn would definitely bring this practice into the public eye where social pressure could force changes in the religion.
In terms of a powerful public message reaching those subjected to indoctrination you might want to consider that even though evidence for evolution streams through all forms of media on a daily basis and the education system in the USA has taught it for over a half century, only 14 percent of Americans are certain that evolution is correct. That may sound preposterous, and I truly wish I was making that up, because it makes me want to cry. The only country that is less certain about evolution than the United States is Turkey.
The message coming from religion flows through all the conduits of media as well. Indoctrinates frequently tell children that scientists are liars and that what they will learn in school is false. If they can have the sort of resounding success they have had in the US in confusing people, what makes you think that Europe is immune? At what point do we step in and stop them from spreading this bullshit? At what point does it become impossible to oppose them?
This truly is a stupid comment. I am not calling you stupid , Jared ... but the comment you made is stupid.
You seem to be implying that indoctrination involves following every single letter of the bible literally. How on Gods Earth are you actually attempting to support such a ludicrous statement?
The more I read of your writings , the more I get the feeling you are just making bat shit crazy up right on the spot.
They don't pluck their fucking eyes out BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT BEING TAUGHT TO DO SO!!!!!
(Just in case you couldn't come to that conclusion yourself.)