Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Dave G on February 14, 2011 at 4:11pm

I would agree, Adriana. Fox 'News' is both a symptom of a wider problem and contributing to the problem itself.

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Permalink Reply by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on February 14, 2011 at 4:41pm

I live in Ireland and have only recently started to catch Fox news, mainly on utube or late night summaries on satellite TV. I have watched CNN and BBC World News for a long time. I would treat Fox news as a comedy channel except, as Donne pointed out above, it lies to its audience.

It should be seen as an embarrassment to journalism and the antithesis of news reporting. It is the definition of “dumbed down” television. It is so dumb because of the religious stance of its staff. Just report the news and keep religious opinions off the air.

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Permalink Reply by Kris Feenstra on February 14, 2011 at 4:43pm

I've always thought of it as a feedback loop.  Take Beck as the extreme case: fear, scapegoating, and righteous indignation are highly marketable to pretty much all people (to varying degrees).  Beck panders to these emotions because there is market demand for it.  At the same time, his pandering exacerbates these negative emotions, which increases the demand for his programing.

 

I've never held much interest in telling Fox, or any other station how to run their programming.  I do think that the term 'News' garners a certain amount of trust on it's own, and sources that abuse that trust should lose the right to use it.  If they called it the Fox Opinion Channel, I probably wouldn't give a foc.

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Permalink Reply by Bill on February 14, 2011 at 5:05pm

Fox News is not a problem, it is a symptom, much like open cold sores are a symptom of herpes.

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Permalink Reply by Bill on February 14, 2011 at 5:21pm

I've identified at least three symptoms here: O'Reilly is a canker sore, Beck is a genital wart, and Limbaugh is an advanced case of anal herpes.

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Permalink Reply by Kris Feenstra on February 14, 2011 at 5:22pm

Feeling pretty glad I've never actually listened to Limbaugh right about now.

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Permalink Reply by Mo Trauen on February 14, 2011 at 9:04pm

It's both, and neither.  There are other factors at work in this slow train wreck we call American democracy.  One problem is our un-earned economic success, making us think we are more talented than we are.   Our recent ancestors lucked into a continent with vast resources and natives with primitive weapons and no immunity to our germs.   If you guys haven't read "Guns, Germs, and Steel", you should.  Or watch the documentary version.  The economic supremacy of the U.S. is just a confluence of random events.  But, of course, most Americans think it is a sign of their superiority.

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Permalink Reply by Ed on February 14, 2011 at 11:53pm

"Fox News is not the problem, merely a symptom of the much deeper issue of the failure of our society to impart intelligent and critical thinking skills to the populace. Simply put, Fox News is what happens when a societies education model has failed."

 

I don't think society has a responsibility to impart CRITICAL thinking skills to the populace. Where did you get that idea from? If this is something that was supposed to occur during our high school education your dreaming. We have an enormity of functionally illiterate graduates running around. Plus a drop out rate approaching 50%. 

 

What this society needs instead of critical thinking skills is a drop of COMMON SENSE. I'll take an ounce of good ole common sense over a bucket full of critical thinking skills.

 

I hardly watch the news anymore, maybe the PBS Newhour from time to time, as they ALL have either a Liberal or Conservative agenda. Like Joe Friday said "Just the facts Ma'am."  A true independent such as myself grows weary of the daily rhetoric eschewed by the likes of NBC and FOX.

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Permalink Reply by Dave G on February 15, 2011 at 12:54am

"Common sense" may be common but it is not particularly sensible, especially when it comes to causality, statistics, coincidence, or any number of other things that our psychology is ill-suited for without a supporting framework.

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Permalink Reply by Ed on February 15, 2011 at 9:08pm

I stated that common sense is not that common these days. As to causality, statistics, etc. requiring a supporting framework I get the impression that you think the common joe would have an inclination for such subjects. In the real world these are not concerns for your typical taxpayer.

I have been a member of this forum for a few weeks now. What seems to be a recurring issue is one of advanced education. Only a small segment of our society seeks higher education. I cannot fault the guy who leaves high school  and becomes a mechanic at the local repair shop. He is certainly not interested in statistical theory or causality. But he could be cracker jack smart and loaded with common sense. His interest in critical thinking skills are not a high priority or need be. 

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Permalink Reply by Dave G on February 15, 2011 at 9:32pm

Education is a common theme because one of the ongoing problems with our society is the attitude that education is a bad thing and that somehow ignorance and 'going with your gut' is a virtue.

As for whether or not the 'common joe' has any use for critical thinking skills or a basic understanding of statistics, I'd say that while the average person might not need a professorial level of expertise, a firm grasp on the essentials can be very valuable to everyone.

For example, critical thinking skills help a person discern a valid argument from a fallacious one. This helps protect the critical thinker from scams, cons, and frauds. Likewise, a basic knowledge of statistics and odds helps the person determine if a favorable outcome is likely or not. A perfect example of this is playing the lottery. There are people who spend hundreds of dollars a month on lottery tickets when a basic understanding of the statistical odds would show that they are wasting their money.

I wouldn't expect everyone to have even a bachelor's degree understanding of statistics, etc. But a basic high school grounding in the subject would be of benefit to everyone.

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Permalink Reply by Pope OoO (Out of Order) on February 15, 2011 at 7:10pm

I don't think society has a responsibility to impart CRITICAL thinking skills to the populace.

I've been thinking of starting a discussion about what society can actually do to impart critical thinking skills to the populace. I disagree that common sense by itself is a good prescription, because it (almost by definition) varies depending on the culture. The phrase is usually meant as "what everyone should know", which in itself isn't really saying much. It's more of a description than a prescription.

In fact, I think that scientific, skeptical, and critical thinking often goes against common sense, or at least it does not come naturally to human beings. Reading, writing, math, science (etc.), are not learned from natural experiences, but must be taught from structured curriculum. Same is true for critical thinking, although most of the Critical Thinking "taught" at school just comes along with the other courses taught, not in itself as a separate class.

So yeah, I'm even saying here that something like Critical Consumption of Media should be a requirement in High School. Especially in light of the growing pervasiveness of internet media.

(This does deserve it's own, separate discussion. Hope I have time to first research TA for what's already been discussed about it.)

 

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