Forbes released its list of the most disliked NFL players and that ex-dog fighter, Michael Vick, is at the top of their list. He served nearly 2 years in prison after pleading guilty to the crime. Since then he's disavowed dog fighting and has been working with the the Humane Society to end dog fighting.

This post isn't about Michael Vick. He just starts the discussion.

What about forgiveness? When does one deserve it? When does one give it? Does one do one's best to forget after forgiving?

What do you think?

Tags: Humane, Michael, Society, Vick, forgiveness

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Gun opponents and vegan-tarians are given to hyperbole.

I am neither a "gun opponent" nor a vegetarian, and I posted detailed specifics, not exaggerations.

If you hunt or enjoy a half rack of babybacks, you're a nut.

But that line above? Now that's hyperbole.

Hopefully I am classified as a responsible gun owner/hunter and not a gun nut, whatever that encompasses. 

I mean 'nut' as in 'one with specious reasoning, dishonesty or irresponsibility regarding a pet subject'. I said gun nuts, as in religious nuts, young earth nuts, climate change denial nuts, Fox "News" nuts, etc. I usually use the word 'crackpots'-- religious crackpots, young earth crackpots, Fox "News" crackpots-- but 'gun nut' is more established.

I regularly harvest wild game off my property for sustenance.

If you understand the difference between shooting animals for sustenance versus the thrill of watching them die, then as applied to this case, no, I would not qualify you as a gun nut.

Belle is spot on. Forget the offender - it is YOU who suffers if you do not forgive. However she goes on to say: "the right to get and feel angry. But channeling your anger appropriately is key". Sure, but really anger is the antithesis of forgiveness. You have the right to be angry but it is suggested that one should do their best not to exercise that right - for one's OWN sake.

Kris talks about the religious aspects. I'm very alone in this, but, in my opinion the sacrament of Confession is  one of the better constructs out of Catholicism. Forget God's forgiveness - it's good to recognize one's own misdeeds and vocalizing or, in some way structuring or formalizing them helps. 

To me this new age "forgive yourself" is approaching the problem backwards. If I commit a misdeed I need to remember it in order for me to avoid repeating it. I don't understand "forgive yourself". I'm guessing it's something women are told. Belle...???

Mike: RE... the right to get and feel angry. But channeling your anger appropriately is key".

....Sure, but really anger is the antithesis of forgiveness.

Wrong. Anger is par of the grieving process to heal. Forgiveness is part of the "acceptance" piece of grieving. It's all part of the same process - grief. Anger is healthy when channeled appropriately. The problem is sometimes we either deny our anger or suppress it, neither of which allows us to accept what has happened to us. Forgiving a person that has hurt you has nothing to do with condoning their behavior. It also has jack to do with religion unless you make it about that. The sole purpose of forgiving is relinquishing the control you allow the other person to have on your future. It's about YOU, not about the person that hurt you.

"Wrong. Anger is par of the grieving process to heal."

It is not necessary to feel anger when you've been wronged. 99% of personal transgressions involve ego being assaulted. An enlightened person can manage to laugh at such transgressions because their ego is already ebbed - nothing to offend. I'll grant that, for the vast majority of people, anger may be part of the process. This is because they are taught that their ego is all important. They are taught, "look after yourself first", "me time", whereas those seeking enlightenment are taught to seek the behaviour of water - find your way to the lowest level, elevate and support all others around you, attach to nothing. 

I agree that 'forgive yourself' is applied too liberally, but it seems to be a back swing from more rigid senses of sin and stigma which ranged from things which actually caused harm to things which are utter fucking nonsense.

If I had to have a general principle, it would be to accept my humanity including my fallibility, and to try to take responsibility for when shit goes wrong because of it. Does confession generally fulfil the second half? Not rhetorical; I have never done it myself.
@Mike: RE 99% of personal transgressions involve ego being assaulted.

Where did you come up with that statistic?
RE: An enlightened person can manage to laugh at such transgressions because their ego is already ebbed - nothing to offend.

I would love to learn how to "Ebb" my ego so I can laugh when my ex-husband tries to abuse my "ego" can you teach me?

No, I can't. I'm not a Tao Master, or anything close. Further, as your post is clearly disingenuous  sarcasm, I suggest you're not ready anyway.

Sorry Mike, my jokes go a little too far sometimes. If you knew me in person I would have said that to you with a wink, a smile, and a pat on the shoulder, but in black and white it doesn't come across that way unless I add LOL!! Which I didn't do for whatever reason. I get what you mean tho.

Lovely. Made my evening. Thank you.

As far as Vick goes - I believe that he simply didn't view fighting dogs as lovable creatures at the time he was pitting them against each other.  I'm certain he had no idea how shocked the masses would be by such activities.  I believe he has changed his view on the matter, paid a serious price for his lack of judgment, and I have no problem with the guy.

In general I'm not nearly as likely to forgive someone as I am to just forget about their transgression.  If they fucked up, well, we all fuck up.  If emotion got the better of them, well I can understand that.  The only question in my mind is whether their transgression represents their standard behavior or a temporary lack of judgement.


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