I was recently having a discussion/debate via Facebook with one of the most conservative, religious people I know regarding the existence of God and why society would be better without religion. I brought up a few statistics, namely that less religious societies (i.e. Denmark, Japan, etc.) have lower crime rates, higher average salaries, yadayadayada. And she responded with this little quip:

"Facts don't prove anything. I don't need facts to prove that God exists."

Now I know religious people are delusional by definition, but has anyone else ever encountered this blunt denial of fact and reason? I was very discouraged by this... I'm beginning to lose 'faith' in humanity, if you'll pardon the pun.


Tags: argument, atheist, christian, debate, denial, fact, help, truth

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She's beyond hope, it seems. Hope her kids turn out atheist. (That would be a real ass thing to say to a theist, wouldn't it?)
Hahah I'll tell here I'm PRAYING that her kids turn out atheist. That would really scare her.
I guess that's where she's coming from... But doesn't that just prove that religion and science/objective reality are incompatible? People argue that major scientific advancements can occur while governments and the masses are limited by "God's plan", but I don't buy it...

Thanks for the reply.
I completely agree. Her entire claim is faulty in so many ways. Although I hadn't really considered your third point, that at some level she knows her argument is based on false premises. I like that one. Thanks :D
The hallmark of delusion is the denial or willful ignorance of facts and reason. If you continue to try and debate this person, be prepared to be continually disappointed.

As some quote I heard reads, and I paraphrase, "you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into".
And here's one that I think also applies to the situation:
“I can stand brute force, but brute reason is quite unbearable. There is something unfair about its use. It is hitting below the intellect.” ;)

And yes, I've sort of accepted disappointment as a side effect of reasoned discussion with her... simply because reasoned discussion with her is close to impossible. I'll probably give up soon... :P
You should reply that you will remember that facts don't matter if you're ever on a jury when she's a defendant.
Someone obviously didn't make it out of the 1st grade, where they teach the difference between FACT and OPINION. She is very very confused.
I know of someone (a sister of a friend) who insists that she does not want to learn anything, because facts are always changing and when she dies, God will tell her anything she wants to know.

This kind of person scares me.
This sounds exactly like the person I was describing. I'm sorry we have to know them. They are terrifying indeed. :/
I have seen some of my fb friends post the following:

"If someone proved to me that Christ is outside the truth and that in reality the truth were outside of Christ, then I should prefer to remain with Christ rather than with the truth." -Fyodor Dostoyevsky

:(
Wow, I had not seen this before. While a bit over the top, I think some of the ideas correct. It is amazing that he only recognizes this about "the other guy's religion".

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