Jesus on Homosexuality (in response to Heather)
To: Heather as you Requested
A few things here from both OT and NT and just because you cant see the word 'Homosexual' Its pretty easy to work it out ....
This is just a little bit ... I dont have time for more but what more do you need? ....
and really ... I'd like an apology thanks ....
First God:
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
King James Version (KJV)
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with ,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God
The Holy Bible: King James Version. 2000. |
|
Corinthians |
7 |
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|
1 |
Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. |
2 |
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. |
3 |
Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. |
4 |
The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. |
5 |
Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. |
6 |
But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment. |
7 |
For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. |
8 |
¶ I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. |
9 |
But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. |
10 |
¶ And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: |
11 |
but and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. Mt. 5.32 ; 19.9 · Mk. 10.11, 12 · Lk. 16.18 |
12 |
¶ But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. |
13 |
And the woman which hath a husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. |
14 |
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. |
15 |
But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. |
16 |
For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife? |
17 |
¶ But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches. |
18 |
Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. |
19 |
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. |
20 |
Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called. |
21 |
Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather. |
22 |
For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant. |
23 |
Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men. |
24 |
Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God. |
25 |
¶ Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful. |
26 |
I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, I say, that it is good for a man so to be. |
27 |
Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. |
28 |
But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you. |
29 |
But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none; |
30 |
and they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not; |
31 |
and they that use this world, as not abusing it: for the fashion of this world passeth away. |
32 |
¶ But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: |
33 |
but he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife. |
34 |
There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband. |
35 |
And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction. |
36 |
¶ But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry. |
37 |
Nevertheless he that standeth steadfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well. |
38 |
So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better. |
39 |
¶ The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord. |
40 |
But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God. |
Genesis 1 (King James Version)
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Now Jesus
1. And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ “and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?’” (Matt. 19:4.)
Questions: What did Jesus say about God’s creative work? Did He make Adam and Joseph? Did He create male and male, or did He create male and female? According to this passage, what has been God’s plan for sexual union [one flesh] since the beginning of time? Was His plan for a male partner to be joined to another male partner, or was it for a husband to be united to his wife? According to this passage, is a man to cleave to his male partner, or to his spouse?
Consider: Since Jesus approved of His Father’s plan [i.e., one man, one woman, one flesh,] could we correctly say that Jesus condemned homosexuality?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Unseen on -
I have heard gays speculate that Jesus was gay, and that there's really no evidence to the contrary. My response was...
(stop reading if you don't like tasteless jokes)
..."Oh, was he a spitter or a swallower?"
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Permalink Reply by Dale Headley on -
If, Angela, you are trying to indoctrinate or influence atheists by quoting the Bible you are pretty much whistling into the wind. You might as well quote from a Harry Potter book.
FYI: I read your entire post. I also have read all of the Bible. I have found nothing in either to deserve serious consideration or respect, authored as it was by some anonymous, self-serving, bronze age, delusional mystics.
I'd ask your opinion of Richard Dawkins' The Greatest Show on Earth," but, of course you have never read it, since it was written by a person of extensive scientific education and impressive common sense who believes all people, regardless of sexual orientation, are equally deserving and valuable members of the human species.
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Permalink Reply by Suzanne Olson-Hyde on -
@Angela - and unless you missed it Suzanne .. Jesus loves everybody too not just Augustine- You did say, did you not, that it is in the bible, that jesus said hate the sin, not the sinner - once again, HE DID NOT - say it.
And yes, I will accept your apology for being wrong.
Once again - the pope talks to god, and can change anything he wants - popes used to marry, now they don't, a pope changed his mind, and so it did pass. The pope is infallible, and can change anything he likes, and just say 'god told him'. The pope does change doctrine if the doctrine is being ignored by the masses.
Did you miss the last pope saying he talks to god, and god told him to retire, that this was the time to go, did you miss that? And that god directs the cardinals in the voting of the next pope. Did you miss that? All these people have direct access to god? On ABC News - maybe you don't get the ABC. Lots of really good stuff on there.
You can quote a misogynistic bible, especially where the catholic church is now positioned, all you like, as you well know, around the world gay marriage is now being recognized, and the only reason it is not moving faster is because of the usual fear mongering of religion. An Atheist doesn't care, give a hoot, ignore any religious book, and neither does the hierarchy of the catholic church. Just protecting their turf.
The church, as far as contraception is concerned, catholics can't ignore the science, and twist their opposition to contraception to now include science, 'cause anybody in an educated country ignore it anyway, including Italy and Spain. Condoms and the pill are now off their mortal sin list. It is called changing the doctrine for expediency.
In all the countries that gay unions are recognized, are more educated and civil, and very little religion. Funny that. The only place for the catholic church to grow is in uneducated superstitious countries. Yayyy catholics.
People are just so sick of talking about something that should be a given - let's move on to some serious topics, like people taking any notice of a many times re-interpreted evil book, thought up out of the heads of uneducated, arab goat herders, two thousand years ago.
Angela, being Australian, you really should watch "Please Like Me" with Josh Thomas. It is a brilliant ABC series about a young man who is gay - it should be compulsory viewing for everybody - and part of your education - dear Angela. He has fabulous parents, who love him to bits.
Then we can talk about the exposure of pedophilia in the catholic church.
If everybody who was involved in the cover up, the moving, the turning a blind eye, and not exposing these evil priests to the police, were removed, the catholic church would collapse., that is why they have actively covered it up, and it is only because of secular pushing and outrage, that anything is being done, otherwise, they would still have rampant pedophilia in the catholic church.
I wonder how the Australian Royal Commission on Pedophilia and the Ensuing Cover Up in the catholic church is going? What do you think? I wonder how Geoffrey Robertson, who I am very proud to say, is Australian, is going in his quest to nail the last pope, now that he is a mere civilian, and can be charged for his involvement, for the moving of pedophile priests into the vatican. Of course, the vatican went into overdrive over this one, the apologists went into a frenzy, one could not expect any less of them, to protect their turf.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21753860
What do you think?
The vatican is in disarray, what with rampant pedophilia cover up, the bank scandals, poor old pope ratszinger just wasn't coping.
Wouldn't get my knickers in a knot if I were you, 'cause gay rights will be here sooner than later Yahoooo!!!!
PS - I wonder, are you going to welcome to wonderful Melbourne Ellen DeGeneres and her beautiful, sexy, smart wife Portia de Rossi, and in case you don't know Portia is Australian.
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Permalink Reply by Heather Spoonheim on -
Ok, so in short, Jesus never said anything specific about homosexuality and the 'hate the sin but love the sinner' line comes from someone else. You are way out of line expecting me to apologize for asking for references - even if you could provide the references and they proved you right. This is an Atheist forum and as such, asking for references is a perfectly valid request here. Unlike your old theist friends, Atheists do not respond to truth by assertion.
As it is, however, you were wrong in your assertions and by asking for references I've set the record straight here. I don't really expect that you'll thank me publicly but I will at least expect a private message thanking me. Also, you need not apologize for openly and directly attacking me for simply asking for some evidence - I'll forgive you without demanding such an apology. You're welcome.
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Permalink Reply by Angela Evangelia on
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Hello Heather
There is a brilliant blog over there by a very emotionally intelligent woman who calls herself RSMee.
Its titled "Are You Listening"
Do me a favour please. Give it a read through a couple of dozen times.
Its good medicine
Peace.
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Permalink Reply by Heather Spoonheim on
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That's ok, I've already forgiven you - although still waiting on that thank you.
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Permalink Reply by Simon Paynton on -
That look on his face is priceless.
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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on -
I'm crushed, totally devastated - Angela "unfriended" me! Whatever shall I do?
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Permalink Reply by Heather Spoonheim on
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Say it isn't so!
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