Is the empowerment of women ALWAYS....ok...almost always...:)  for the betterment of society?

....You can guess

My answer Is....YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What do you think?


For the purpose of this discussion: We must first define the empowerment of women. Please see this video. Women have only recently with the invention of modern medicine been able to control their reproductive health and choice. They have become much more equal in the workforce. They have been allowed to raise their children with infrastructure in place to aid them financially and emotionally. They have been given many rights that in previous generations were defaulted to the man, such as the right to vote, the right to join the armed forced and even the right to say no to sex and be heard. These rights have not come over night. But we now have them and many take them for granted. Myself included maybe. But the empowerment of women is more than just giving them rights. It's being able and willing as a society to recognize their humanity and honor it as just as important as a man's humanity. This means that special considerations must be made due to the nature of women as the child bearers and mothers. It doesn't mean special treatment or putting women above men, it means elevating them to a place where they can make the most of their lives and the lives of their children, and the society they live in. It means allowing them to use their unique skills and influence to counteract the sometimes male-dominated attitudes that prevail in public life, and it means that women MUST be respected for the natural born abilities they can bring to others, but even more so their ability to be authentically themselves without societal pressure to conform to old ways of thinking and living. It is the only way  our species will survive and has survived. Women have sought empowerment and have won in many ways, but in my opinion and the point of this discussion is to say that there is NEVER a circumstance where the empowerment of women would be detrimental to society, therefore it is ALWAYS for the betterment of society.

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No Belle, it was a very reasonable question.  The situation doesn't make logical sense unless you know what Arch said (which I agree with).  I've known one person who admitted to being troubled with rape fantasies, and he had a very over-controlling father.  The guy who nail-bombed the Admiral Nelson (gay pub in Soho) was similar to that and he was big on rape fantasies apparently.  I believe it's a lot more common than people think. 

Thanks Arch! Me TOO!!! In "real life" I'm very expressive and when I started on TA I was the same way. I have since learned that my natural "emotional tendencies" hold about as much weight as a gorilla on eggshells. I am trying to use critical thinking more so than emotional responses/life experiences (even thought I still kinda think life experience trumps "books.")...I would much rather debate with my heart than my head. But no one takes me seriously without solid reasoning/logic and all that other crap, LOL!!!!

That comment was way too long for someone who should have her eyes on the road - both hands back on the wheel, 10 and 2, now. Text later.

But yeah, "all that other crap" is kinda important if you want to convince a thinking person of anything.

No, LOL! I wasn't phone has this auto-populate button for the "D" and I forgot every time I say "I'd" it fills in like that...I was like, "Oh SHIT!"...embarassing. I had to hop on my computer to fix it, LOL!!! One of these days I'll get a new phone, worries I am at home cozied up and NOT driving.


 I've known one person who admitted to being troubled with rape fantasies, and he had a very over-controlling father.

But shouldn't education counteract this? When men/boys are taught that "no" means "no?"...I don't know. I'm going to rabbit trail the thread. Not sure if that's a good thing. I agree that childhood upbringing plays a role is who we become to a degree, but once someone is an adult it comes down to personal responsibility. I just wonder if it's truly a biological tendency as Rick was suggesting shouldn't that be a little more talked about? Maybe that would be a deterrent? Maybe women could learn from that too. 

Belle, my experience growing up a boy was that "No":

1) sometimes, especially in competitive sports, means "Put more effort into getting what you want", and

2) sometimes means "No".

That was before I took up the challenge of girls.

After I took up that challenge, and the training my dad had given me in being a provider object was having its effect, the meaning of "No" sometimes didn't change.

Confusing? Yes.

My friend was/is educated (he went nuts eventually and I never saw him again) and to the best of my knowledge, was in no danger of carrying out the fantasies.  He has great respect for women.  Like I said, the fantasies troubled him greatly. 

As for the rest of your questions, I'm somewhat stumped.  We have a predisposition for some men to have these fantasies because they feel powerless and humiliated from an early age.  So... they need to be steered away from carrying them out - they need to be educated.  On top of that, we have a problem with powerless humiliated men taking it out on their sons and making them the same way.  Perhaps mothers can be guilty of this too. 

If you fancy doing some murky googling (who wouldn't?) there's a whole subculture out there to learn about.  You would somehow need to get it from the horse's mouth. 

RE: "No, LOL! I wasn't driving" - good to know, because you have a boy to come home to, and likely, there are those on the other side of the road, who'd like to live a little longer too --

because you have a boy to come home to, and likely, there are those on the other side of the road, who'd like to live a little longer too --

I'm one of the lucky few that gets this federal holiday off...I am lounging and cleaning and don't plan to get behind the wheel today...I appreciate your concern...but again I just have a really ghetto phone that needs a software update. My boy means the WORLD to me and I would never put his life or anyone else's at risk.

Equality between men and women is a line drawn in ever shifting sands...always moving...good luck trying to get it to hold still.

The education and empowerment of women throughout the world cannot fail to result in a more caring, tolerant, just and peaceful life for all.
Aung San Suu Kyi


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