Is the empowerment of women ALWAYS....ok...almost always...:)  for the betterment of society?

....You can guess

My answer Is....YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What do you think?

Why?

For the purpose of this discussion: We must first define the empowerment of women. Please see this video. Women have only recently with the invention of modern medicine been able to control their reproductive health and choice. They have become much more equal in the workforce. They have been allowed to raise their children with infrastructure in place to aid them financially and emotionally. They have been given many rights that in previous generations were defaulted to the man, such as the right to vote, the right to join the armed forced and even the right to say no to sex and be heard. These rights have not come over night. But we now have them and many take them for granted. Myself included maybe. But the empowerment of women is more than just giving them rights. It's being able and willing as a society to recognize their humanity and honor it as just as important as a man's humanity. This means that special considerations must be made due to the nature of women as the child bearers and mothers. It doesn't mean special treatment or putting women above men, it means elevating them to a place where they can make the most of their lives and the lives of their children, and the society they live in. It means allowing them to use their unique skills and influence to counteract the sometimes male-dominated attitudes that prevail in public life, and it means that women MUST be respected for the natural born abilities they can bring to others, but even more so their ability to be authentically themselves without societal pressure to conform to old ways of thinking and living. It is the only way  our species will survive and has survived. Women have sought empowerment and have won in many ways, but in my opinion and the point of this discussion is to say that there is NEVER a circumstance where the empowerment of women would be detrimental to society, therefore it is ALWAYS for the betterment of society.

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This is my definition Simon...MY definition. Not copied and pasted from wiki or yahoo answers...this is from my heart...

But the empowerment of women is more than just giving them rights. It's being able and willing as a society to recognize their humanity and honor it as just as important as a man's humanity. This means that special considerations must be made due to the nature of women as the child bearers and mothers. It doesn't mean special treatment or putting women above men, it means elevating them to a place where they can make the most of their lives and the lives of their children, and the society they live in. It means allowing them to use their unique skills and influence to counteract the sometimes male-dominated attitudes that prevail in public life, and it means that women MUST be respected for the natural born abilities they can bring to others, but even more so their ability to be authentically themselves without societal pressure to conform to old ways of thinking and living.

Why should people want it you ask? Because our world without it is deprived of the good that comes from it. The abuses towards women go avoided, unprotected, and ignored many times. Women struggle to raise children and be productive members of society with more societal handicaps than men and they are treated as second class citizens stilll...to this day...in 2013. We aren't living in the dark ages anymore and women have come a long way towards having empowerment, but we aren't even close to where we could be if men would step back their own position for a minute and see how beautiful the world could be if we were allowed to bring forth and live as free women...all of us. Not just those lucky enough to be born in the right corner of the world, but if all women everywhere were not told how to dress or how to act...or how to have sex, or mutilated so that they are stripped of their sexuality and dignity...what a world we could have...can you see it yet?

societal handicaps

treated as second class citizens

Maybe it is different in the US (in which case: fuck the US) but here in Australia, I don't see this. If anything, women have so many "helping hands" that men are somewhat disadvantaged.

if men would step back their own position for a minute

What does this have to do with female empowerment? Why do men need "step back" for women to be more empowered?

what a world we could have

Agreed, if all of world were brought up to current first world standards, we would have a fine world indeed. But here in the first world, I don't see the case for further empowerment of women.

I would like a bullet-point version.  I think in bullet-points.  I know it can be a failing.  Really it's a sign of a weak brain. 

She's actually the result of the direct opposite of empowering women. Your point is moot.

So empowering women can only have positive outcomes?

The definition of "empowering" is

Verb
  1. Give (someone) the authority or power to do something
  2. Enable (someone) to do something.

By those two definitions alone you can say Kim K is an empowered woman as she has lifted herself to a social hierarchy that most other women cannot attain. Just because the reaction did not the produce the verifiable outcome that you attained for, doesn't mean that the reaction did not happen. Empowerment doesn't mean it will produce a viable positive outcome to every situation.

How so? Adam and I have explained why Kim K fits the description of empowered, in our view at least. All you have offered in rebuttal is "Nope, your point is invalid!".

No need to be ugly. I didn't have time to write a full explanation so I thought I'd put my 2 cents in with the time I had. 

I say she is the opposite of empowerment, in my opinion, because she is the "idealised woman". All she is is a walking sex object. That is what women are summed up to in today's society. If you are not good looking, you are worthless. This is not empowerment. It is a limit placed on our gender, a way to dictate who and who should not have power. They would rather give 'power' to stupid brainless women who like being seen as objects, instead of women who actually have something to offer to society. 

This is my own opinion. You may not agree but this is why I say Adam's point is moot. KK is not an empowered woman. She is merely a pawn in the power play between men and woman. She shows other women that in order to gain 'power' they need to be like her, ie useless to our society.

Ironically, her 'power' actually gives men more power over women. Dictating how women should act and look is an old world way of thinking. KK is following old world thinking and becoming what men think women should act and look like.

@Teri G - I can see your point, that she comes across like some kind of rich Barbie Doll.  But surely what she really is, is fantasy-fodder.  Many women dream of living like her, and I can't imagine that straight men watch her shows.  There's a huge market for that kind of escapist TV. 

That's true, but the reason she is famous in the first place is because of her modeling and only afterwards came the TV shows. Once she was already famous young girls think they want to be like her so they watch her shows and learn how to become a stupid. If there was no modeling, there would be no shows.

I know it's an open question.  I don't see the harm, if girls want to be girly. 

All she is is a walking sex object.

So empowered women cannot be sex objects? What if that's what they genuinly want to be?

That is what women are summed up to in today's society

Can you show some examples? I struggle to find any as I work in a mixed workplace where both men and women are expected to do their job.

If you are not good looking, you are worthless

I would say, if you are not good looking, your worth is not defined by your looks.

Dictating how women should act and look is an old world way of thinking.

I don't see how one woman acting this way for attention is dictating...

So empowered women cannot be sex objects? What if that's what they genuinly want to be?

My opinion is that the women who want to be seen as sex objects are not empowered. They are just playing pretend. If KK wasn't good looking she would never have gotten famous in the first place. Her 'power' is based solely on her looks.

Can you show some examples? I struggle to find any as I work in a mixed workplace where both men and women are expected to do their job.

I refer to what I see on TV, in magazines, movies, radio. I am not talking about a small section of a society, I am talking about the society itself. It has nothing to do with working in a business? Of course women are expected to do their work, I didn't say that they weren't.

I would say, if you are not good looking, your worth is not defined by your looks.

Most definitely, but that is from an individuals perspective. From a societal perspective, if you are an unattractive looking woman you get rejected and treated with disdain - we learn this in high school, high schoolers learn this from the media. Unattractive men at least get the, "Well he's probably smart" response.

I don't see how one woman acting this way for attention is dictating...

I never said that KK is dictating. Society is dictating. KK is just a small piece in the media puzzle.

You seem to have taken my very big generalisation and minimised it into pieces that can easily be refuted when applying it to smaller situations. Of course it's not going to work in the smaller situations, it's a comment on society itself, not the individuals that are part of it. All I am saying is that our society is ill, with the views of both men and women, but more so for women.

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