Is the empowerment of women ALWAYS....ok...almost always...:)  for the betterment of society?

....You can guess

My answer Is....YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What do you think?


For the purpose of this discussion: We must first define the empowerment of women. Please see this video. Women have only recently with the invention of modern medicine been able to control their reproductive health and choice. They have become much more equal in the workforce. They have been allowed to raise their children with infrastructure in place to aid them financially and emotionally. They have been given many rights that in previous generations were defaulted to the man, such as the right to vote, the right to join the armed forced and even the right to say no to sex and be heard. These rights have not come over night. But we now have them and many take them for granted. Myself included maybe. But the empowerment of women is more than just giving them rights. It's being able and willing as a society to recognize their humanity and honor it as just as important as a man's humanity. This means that special considerations must be made due to the nature of women as the child bearers and mothers. It doesn't mean special treatment or putting women above men, it means elevating them to a place where they can make the most of their lives and the lives of their children, and the society they live in. It means allowing them to use their unique skills and influence to counteract the sometimes male-dominated attitudes that prevail in public life, and it means that women MUST be respected for the natural born abilities they can bring to others, but even more so their ability to be authentically themselves without societal pressure to conform to old ways of thinking and living. It is the only way  our species will survive and has survived. Women have sought empowerment and have won in many ways, but in my opinion and the point of this discussion is to say that there is NEVER a circumstance where the empowerment of women would be detrimental to society, therefore it is ALWAYS for the betterment of society.

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Matt: It's true that women have somewhat of a level playing field when it comes to job opportunities when they are single or married w/ no kids...the minute kids enter the picture there's an immediate disadvantage. Who stays home with the kids when they get sick? And trust me...they do get sick...a LOT. 

Perhaps I'm simply speaking from personal experience. I have no idea what the stats/studies say. All I know is that I have had to forgo many job opportunities since becoming a mother, either in not being able to apply because of the schedule, or simply due to a tarnished attendance record due to having to stay home with my son when he gets sick...You'll probably find more often than not women also choose motherhood over CEO status, therefore they hit their glass ceiling sooner than men...

Another area of concern of my own is the disadvantage of women in abusive relationships/marriages. I have been very vocal about this and I cannot stress it enough...This also puts women at a disadvantage in every aspect of life and the ability to escape is NOT as easy as one might think. Not to rabbit trail too real point in saying all of this is the say that while women have many more doors open than previous generations, you will still see oppression where you least expect it. Most women don't complain about the little things because we simply want to live happy lives and raise our children. But we still have a long way to go before we reach true gender parity as you suggest so strongly is the ideal.

I firmly believe that if women are empowered, it is for the benefit of everyone.  It means that men are free to be people too; society suddenly has access to the wisdom of women; and kids grow up more happy and healthy.  Freedom all round and a new respect for humanity. 

In the term "firmly believe", does the word "firmly" make evidence unnecessary?


I'm starting here because our comments are getting jumbled...

Is true. i.e. there is at least one time when empowering women is does not better society.

Sorry I missed it...what was it? It looked like you were still comparing our claim to a man jumping out of a building...Is that your example?

Or was it to say that once we are all equal women will no longer need empowering? You cannot base an arguement upon an imaginary fallacy. It's not logical...

I'm in a rush getting ready for what is your example when A does not equal B...see my previous comment on the "proof" A = empowerment of women...B = betterment of society... A = B, B = A...what specifically is your example based on reality not wishful thinking that A does not equal B...

gotta go to work..ttyl.

Matt hasn't encountered Phyllis Schafly and her many women allies whose thinking has been poisoned by their religions.

For purposes of not deflecting from the discussion and making this about proving something that cannot be proven I respectfully recant my statement with a little hesitancy and nervousness...although I'm not sure why, LOL...OK no more absolutes. This discussion shouldn't be about absolute truth, it's about Women...No more beating a dead horse with a toothbrush. I think everyone here probably gets my point and my point is that empowering women can make our world more prosperous. I can be a little over the top sometimes. I wouldn't be Belle Rose if I wasn't LOL!!!

Belle, I feel like you should spell out your position formally. 

My position is that the empowerment of women around the world will lead humanity towards a better way of life for everyone.

Matt and I got into a debate on absolutes from a previous conversation and I am now willing to admit I am wrong. This discussion is not supposed to be about absolutes but I steered it that way...Remember: You're talking to a woman who once believed (and maybe still does to a degree...) in absolutes. I am now willing to admit my own error. But I hope we can keep the dice rolling....great discussion folks.

Hi Belle, a large part of my objection was indeed the absolutism of the statement. Given that people around the world are not the same as people in modern western society, I agree that empowerment of women and men up to the point of equality with their contemporaries in western society, will lead humanity towards a better way of life for everyone.

I say women and men there because I don't believe empowerment of one group of people will result in the best outcome. Equality and equal empowerment is the best way forward, otherwise we will just see-saw between male dominated and female dominated society.

what is your example when A does not equal B

Please see my response to the original place where this is asked... I was asleep when you were posting this.

Maternity leave is a big problem for small businesses.  If you hire a woman of childbearing age, it is entirely possible that she will get pregnant and require maternity leave.  If you are a small company with say four employees, you can't really afford to pay for a quarter of your workforce not to be at work.  The net result is that you will most probably hire a guy, because you don't have the same potential issue.   This cannot help the cause for women at all.

Heres an example where empowering women (by giving them more maternity leave) would actually be a net negative to society as they become less employable. By elevating the parental leave available to men to a comparable level, the contrast between the two sexes goes away and the business will hire the one who is best for the position.


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