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Permalink Reply by idcollapse Ra on March 3, 2011 at 8:04pm

Trying to figure out what makes addicts use drugs and then work on solving those motives . Some addicts will do everything to come up with a new drug when no drugs are around !!

Soldiers in my country when dispached to the southern Sahara of Morocco creat crazy formulas from local herbs to suffice their needs , as for alcohol, they replace it  with a brand of perfume traficked from Algeria ... some who have never used any drugs or even smoked  will use those drugs I mentioned  if put in similar conditions ( soldiers in  my example ...)  

 So punishing people for someting they cannot control is not the right solution  ; even emprisoning all the drug dealers of the world will not solve the problem because people wwill creat their own formulas .

 Consulting and psychological help available for all ,may give better results although I am not sure it will solve the problem ?? punishment ( jail) has proved to be a bad  method of tackling the problem , people come out of prison more addictive than before .

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Permalink Reply by scLovely on March 3, 2011 at 9:00pm

Higher prices would just yield more poeple cooking it up at home and it wouldn't solve any theft issues.

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Permalink Reply by T A A on March 3, 2011 at 9:59pm

It has been tried, cigarettes! small to moderate tax hikes translated to less use, but larger tax hikes simply shifted point of sale. High taxes created a black market for a legal drug!

 

You've shifted your argument, you originally stated: taxed up so high (so expensive) that they would be out of reach for say 95% of people

that's a completely different scenario, and nothing like how Holland is!!!

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Permalink Reply by T A A on March 3, 2011 at 11:16pm

As I've stated elsewhere, I'm very impressed with the all inclusive access offered by the Portuguese system.

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Permalink Reply by T A A on March 3, 2011 at 9:27pm

Overtaxing has its negative consequences too. In Canada cigarette taxing was high enough that cigarette companies created a cigarette black market. Their cigarettes leave the factory and conveniently get lost and wind up on native reserves and in third world countries.

The point of drug decriminalisation is to facilitate and increase the availability of the least harmful drugs in other to reduce desire for deadly drugs.

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Permalink Reply by Alan G Nixon on March 3, 2011 at 10:06pm

Are the 'drug related' crimes the taking of the drug itself or actual crimes derived from drugs? This idea often confuses the stats on drug crimes, especially in a country that jails a person just for the act of consumption or trafficking. Put simply, criminalising drug taking often creates criminals. The person may now begin to enact a criminal identity where without criminalisation there may not have been one to enact. It would be interesting to know how many people are arrested for Alcohol related crimes and if this is related to the legal status of the drug.

 

It was common in the past to think of drug taking as a genetic, moral or criminal issue that can be solved through punishment (including elimination of the person). However, due to the high relapse rate and potential for crime creation, many studies have come to the conclusion that drug dependent people cannot be 'cured' as such. Instead they recommend a 'harm minimisation' regime in which you attempt to make the drug taking activities of the addict safer (healthwise: pure drugs, needle exchanges, shooting galleries etc), less dangerous to others and decriminalised. There has been some success with these programs, at least at lowering the crime rate associated with addictive drug use. Some critiques suggest that this does not move towards resolving the root issue (drug addiction) or that some of these programs encourage others to initiate drug taking because of the light penalties and social acceptance. There is also still the issue of funds to buy the drug, addicts often have difficulty working and they may need other social supports to avoid crime.

 

Honestly not sure what the answer is, but the current tactic of criminalisation is definitely not working, we need to have some major (sensible) discussions about this, but with a topic this hot, its extremely difficult (Though any Atheist should be used to controversy by now).     

 

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Permalink Reply by T A A on March 3, 2011 at 10:10pm

Creating a criminal identity is a huge problem in our society and it goes way beyond just drugs. The schooling system is rife with. But the worst is our systems of juvenile detention. Taking kids with slightly "off-norm" behaviours and criminalising them, practically creating new criminals in the process! It is a sad state of affairs.

It is however an inherent part of a capitalist system with private jails. The owners of those jails must fill them to make money, and their lobbies will back any policy which increases incarceration rates, no matter the nature of the behaviour.

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Permalink Reply by scLovely on March 5, 2011 at 7:55pm

I was talking about the crimes derived from the drugs.

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Permalink Reply by Atheist Exile on March 4, 2011 at 12:42am

The best punishment is no punishment.  The biggest reason drug use causes crime is because it's illegal.  It's an artificial problem.  What is the government afraid of?  That we all become addicts?  That the country couldn't function if drugs were legal?

There might well be immediate consequences to legalizing drugs . . . as the drug-starved population orgies on the once forbidden fruits.  But in the long run, people will know/learn how harmful addiction can be.  Heroine, crack, meth . . . these drugs will be avoided by reasonable people.  The ones who don't avoid them won't be fueling the illicit drug industry.  The bottom line is that a major contributor to crime will be virtually eliminated.

I grew up doing illegal drugs: marijuana, LSD, Quaaludes, and cocaine mostly.  Although some of them were addictive, they could be taken recreationally without becoming addicted.  I avoided heroine, crack and meth precisely because I considered them to be dangerously addictive.

We should take the money we save from enforcing unenforceable drug laws and use it to provide care for those who choose to end whatever addiction they have.  Many people will never avail themselves of these services but that's no different than the current state of affairs.

It is far better to work out the issues that lie beneath addiction but we don't need to criminalize those that don't address their issues successfully.

If people want to do drugs, they'll find a way.  Why turn these sad people into criminals?

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Permalink Reply by T A A on March 4, 2011 at 2:31am

Basically the reasons for which some drugs are illegal is that a) criminal rings have vested interest in NOT losing their income b) prison lords need flesh for fill cells and c) NARC government bureaucrats don't want to lose their jobs. It's all just money.

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Permalink Reply by Arcus on March 4, 2011 at 2:43am

Actually, this is precisely wrong :)

It's about unchecked ideology. No progressive would lean back and say 'This seems to be working, let's put more money into to war on drugs.'

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Permalink Reply by T A A on March 4, 2011 at 2:47am

Well, the politicians can either stand up to the lobbies, or suck them off. In Portugal, they stood up, here, well... :O

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