I am a woman, and I am an atheist.....and have escaped from the abusive relationships of my past and I now want to give back. This is a topic that is "skidded over" through the horrific consequences of religion, but I haven't seen the topic come up recently on TA as it's own separate entity of discussion. My goal around this conversation is for women to come together who either:
1. Have been in an abusive relationship and escaped,
2. Are currently IN an abusive relationship and don't know what to do and are looking for support,
3. For any men who are allies who want to add their comments/insights to be able to do so.
There are lots of resources in many placed in the US, I don't know about the rest of the world, but I think that even still there is a lot of discrepancy and confusion about what domestic violence IS and there's a lot of people who are in abusive relationships that don't think that they are abusive, they just see them as normal. Also there's a lot of misconceptions and myths portrayed by media. I hope together we can blow a hole through all of that and get down to some real truth on the matter, as well as support anyone who may be going through it, to give them a safe place to fall....
Maybe he realised it was the right thing to do. If he has a shred of decency.
Maybe he realised he's just no good at relationships, at this current time, because of X, Y, Z problems he obviously has (the poor dear).
You're probably right Simon. He did say something to that effect once or twice.
Also - suddenly, he's weak and you're strong. That must be surprising for him.
I find that this is a useful concept:
and who has it?
I remember I had a brief stint at Hickory Farms when I was 19. I was working the kiosk in the mall and it was a slow day. This woman of maybe 35-40 came up to look around and maybe make a purchase so we started talking about this and that. I don't recall how the topic came up but suddenly she is telling me about her abusive husband who hits her and how she feels really confused about what to do. She is telling me how her church was suggesting that she needed to live in a place of forgiveness regardless of the abuse because that is what Jesus did while her son is telling her he doesn't want her to stay with her husband/ his father because she is being hurt.
I of course told her the same thing and we talked about how her son was grown and so there is no "Father Figure" factor anymore and that you have to learn to love yourself enough to form healthy relationships that don't repeat the same destructive patterns.
So here we have religion playing a part in the continued abuse of this woman and of course she is playing her part too. What really struck me though was that in her eyes this 19 year old kid working at a Hickory Farms part time was a good candidate to share this info with. Some people will introduce themselves in a way that gives them an extreme amount of attention but that was not the vibe I was getting from her...it just seemed like she was that desperate to talk to someone, anyone about it. Hey random person please reassure me that I'm sane and not crazy when I want to leave if someone is hurting me...that is okay right? Can you give me validation kid who is so much younger and inexperienced than I?
I think at the time I thought religion was the culprit and really only enhanced my dislike for it in general...but I think if it hadn't been religion it would have been some other possibly toxic crutch that she leaned on instead of leaning on herself and her own wisdom. Is religion really the issue or is it simply the indicator of a much deeper issue. A general lack of belief in self that a disproportionate amount of women seem to have.
I have to wonder if our society is a bigger culprit where we try so hard to keep everyone in line and we heavily reinforce almost a worship of authority figures in general.
"Don't do some basic research and reading about the human body...instead go to the doctor the minute you have a sniffle because you are not a doctor."
"Don't make any major life choices without consulting your church because we may know better than you."
So for these people that have been taught to obey someone other than themselves...religion seems to be a beacon for answers. Even if these answers hurt us in the short and long term...maybe that seems more bearable than the imagined silence that would ensue if we asked ourselves for the answers instead of an outsider who is only too eager to tell us their version of "right".
I'm glad that women like you exist Belle because it means we are making progress...we are moving forward. You didn't escape the mistreatment completely but you didn't suffer your whole life either...and maybe when enough women like yourself come forward and share and talk about it in a healthy way...maybe future generations will bear less and less of the abuse.
@Jason: there is so much wisdom and truth in what you just said i almost hate to comment because you said it all, LOL!!!
She is telling me how her church was suggesting that she needed to live in a place of forgiveness regardless of the abuse because that is what Jesus did
Exactly. This was the message I got as well. I had an hour each way commute for a while and when I was still a Christian I listened to Christian radio the ENTIRE ride because my CD player is broken. I heard every leading Christian mind...Chuck Swindolll, John MacArthur, Alastair Begg, Ravi Zacharias, James Dobson....the list goes ON...I heard them all...every day...for over a year. I never ONCE heard ANY of them talk about domestic violence. A few times it was skidded over but NEVER addressed head on. You would THINK that they would!!! I was PERPLEXED!!!! For me personally this is when I HAD to start looking for answers outside of religion. I was just waiting for guidance that never came and prayers that weren't being answered. It's how I found TA. It's how I became and Atheist.
...it just seemed like she was that desperate to talk to someone, anyone about it. Hey random person please reassure me that I'm sane and not crazy when I want to leave if someone is hurting me...that is okay right?
Thanks for the validation. I needed that too!! LOL!!! Yes...that's me too. I STILL struggle with thinking I'm crazy and asking for validation. There are SO many times I have had to call the domestic violence hotlines in the middle of the night just to tell them what I'm thinking and receive confirmation that I am not crazy. I tend to really spill my guts and I'm not afraid to tell people what I think and how I feel, but I too tend to go overboard and disclose things that most healthy people probably wouldn't, just because I need to talk. I'm in counseling but an hour a week isn't enough. Journaling only goes so far because I am an extrovert and I HAVE to talk to people. If a woman comes to you who is abused, assuring her she's not crazy goes a long way. She most certainly feels it.
Is religion really the issue or is it simply the indicator of a much deeper issue. A general lack of belief in self that a disproportionate amount of women seem to have.
For me religion is the salt that rubbed into the already badly mangled wound. I was already messed up. It really for me goes back to my childhood, (isn't that the case most of the time?) My mother was very abusive. Still is. She taught me that I had to take care of her emotionally and used me as a dumping ground for her emotions. I internalized that to mean that if I just am there for other people enough and love them enough then they will in turn love be back to the same capacity. This of course is not healthy. I know that know. It's codependency at its worst. No wonder I spend my entire adolescence and young adulthood in the clutches of abuser after abuser. I married the man who was the least abusive of them all. I thought he treated me great because he didn't hit me (at first). My family loved him and to this day they still side with him on a lot of things. I have zero emotional support from them. It goes to show that yes. these problems begin in childhood for the most part. Once a pattern starts something but happen drastic enough to snap you out of your comfort zone to be able to think about things differently. Many women stay for the children. This is sad because they are then raising them to be abusers. I don't want that for my son. Over my dead body.
BTW: I'm THRILLED that so many men have shared on this post! I thought the guys might shy away from it. It just goes to show you that there really are some awesome guys on this planet!!!!
Here's a short exerpt from the BBC World Service programme From Our Own Correspondent. It's talking about the domestic violence problem in Bhutan in the Himalayas, and how they're trying to tackle it using little advert-dramas on the radio. It sounds really good.
@ Jason - that totally rocked. I think that one problem is that Jesus didn't have a very good record of standing up for himself. If he had had more time, then probably he would have got round to covering that, but in the 2-3 years he had it was all about the radical message of peace and forgiveness, and then he was required to make the final sacrifice. So it makes it very easy for, in this case, Christians, to perpetuate the abuse of women if they're minded to.
Somebody should be able to be Christian and still have a good theoretical formula to use against this attitude.
@ Belle - I'm looking for someone to cover the subject of abusive relationships in my atheist Bible thing I'm doing - tying it in with the fundamental model of morality, perhaps starting with a clear theoretical framework. Maybe that would be a good way to help you work your way through and turn your experiences into something really positive for the world that might help a lot of people.
"I internalized that to mean that if I just am there for other people enough and love them enough then they will in turn love be back to the same capacity." Definitely, I think that's ass-backwards. You have to be strong and love yourself, otherwise it's hard to do anything with other people in my opinion... for me, that means trying to do the right thing morally, approving or disapproving of the same things in myself that I would approve or disapprove of in other people's efforts to be morally good. But that's it. Fuck everything else, it doesn't matter to my self-esteem. Some people say I'm like a soldier; maybe that's true.
What moral behaviour means to the individual is up to them to work out.
@ Belle - also, I'm compelled to say I think you're doing a brilliant job. I know I might seem to be all about criticism, but you're doing everything right as far as I can see.