It has been brought to my attention that I may be "dogmatic."
The more I try to talk to my wife about my position on god (no evidence for) and hers (Christian) the more I feel my distain for the religious grow. I resent not being able to talk about this with the most important person in my life because the "loving" Christians of her childhood have told her Jesus loves her and will always be there for her...except if she doesn't believe then He will throw her into a lake of fire for all eternity.
This stresses me greatly. In my view it is condescending to "just let her have her beliefs." She is very intelligent and I believe she knows the truth but holds on to Pascal's Wager (more for our children than for herself).
Am I just being a dogmatic atheist and therefore should just "let" her have her beliefs? Or, am I being respectful of her intelligence.
On some level it scares me because, from a Christian point of view, I could be seen as the SOB who tried to lead her and her children away from god and into an eternity of hellfire. But if I do not have this conversation with her and my children the cycle will keep repeating and my children and grandchildren will be put in the same position some day. So on that level I feel like I need to take the risk and break the cycle now so my kids don't have to later.
Or, there's also the possibility I'm just being over-dramatic and should just stop whining.
Let me know what you think.
I don't think you are being dogmatic at all.
My girlfriend is a christian, too, and gets really emotional whenever we somehow bring it up or even if I say something that goes against her view of the world. For example, we talked about euthanasia for people and I asked what she thought if a person was truly in too much pain to bear and their pain will only get worse and they truly just wanted to have their peace and die. In my opinion, if someone really wants to end their life, then they have the right to do so. I don't think they should give up unless there is truly no sight of improval, but I would understand it in certain cases. Now, she thought that the time of death is not up to a human because they aren't creators, like god is. That just seems a bit wrong to me and I had many questions regarding that but I didn't ask them to keep things calm.
Then we went into the same repetitive religious debates that everybody has, but she puts a lot of emotion into it and it's hard to explain things then.
The thing is, she is very smart, like your wife, and I hope that one day I can point her in the right direction, not actually convert her, but just give a little shove and let her make her own decision.
Religion in her life causes a lot of stress and problems and it is pretty much the only problem between us. I honestly do not want our children to have those problems and fear hell and believe in fairy tales and all the other problems their whole life.
So, in my opinion, you are being a respectful husband. She is agreeing to it, so you aren't forcing her. You are just trying to help her know the truth. There is nothing wrong with that. I very much understand your situation for wanting her to think like you or at least understand you better and for you wanting your kids to not go through indoctrination.
She is your wife and loves you, I don't think there is all that much of a risk. If you guys have an argument then you can make up again and everything will be good. I seriously think you shouldn't worry about seeming dogmatic. You aren't doing anything wrong.
Sorry for the long story, I just thought that I could show you that I can relate and understand your postition. Hopefully that wasn't too much and I could help.
sounds like u have some of the same issues. I have tried asking my wife "what is your faith in?" She knows the bible has numerous inconsistencies and is flat out wrong many, many times. So she doesn't have faith in it. So I ask if her faith is in the people who told her about god. She says no. We have discussed how you can't just have faith in "god." You have to have faith in how you know about god. I think she is getting closer but I don't want to push her. While it suck u have the same issues, its nice (on some level) to know I'm not alone on this one.
in the scientific process and believe that is the best
It kinda sounds bad saying this, but I'm somewhat glad she is getting closer. You don't have to push her, the curiosity of her human mind will do that for you.
While I don't know what level of faith she has in her god, she may at some point blame you for changing her belief. But that should only be in the beginning and then she will notice that her eyes are now open to the beauty of the world and all that good stuff and maybe she will thank you then.
She believes in the christian god without believing in the Bible, right? If so, then she believes in omnipotence and omniscience and so on, I would suppose. Those are pretty easy to debunk and I would imagine that would help a little.
In a way, I kinda just want to sit down with my girlfriend and explain it all to her. Why it doesn't make sense and how she was indoctrinated. But I also kinda feel bad about it because she really takes her faith seriously. She says she loves Jesus and wants to one day go up in heaven and have drinks with him and tell him stories and anecdotes and so on. That's a nice belief but it's just not realistic and in a way, I think it's kind of damaging to not be realistic about things. I would feel bad taking away that happiness of thinking everything will be good after death but I think it would be better if I did. I don't know if anybody knows what I mean with that.
I also asked her who she loved more while we were in an argument. I know, that is a bad question. But she didn't answer really which hurts quite a bit to hear that the love of your life loves a fairytale more than you.
But as far as I know, your wife doesn't have that much faith. Which should make it easier and I hope everything goes smoothly for you guys and no arguments break out or something.
Have a great day.
interesting u asked her about who she loved more. i thought about that question but never asked it. its all about perspective. they view it as a choice between us or god. we see it as a choice between us and an imaginary friend. good luck
Thanks Amanda - Great to hear it worked out for you. One thing I do have going for me is the fact that both of my children are very rational thinkers. I think they are both closer to atheism than my wife.
I suggest you CONCENTRATE your efforts on your children. Your wife may never come around. If you raise your kids to think rationally and logically and to question tradition and superstition you are doing well. Education is the greatest enemy of religion. If your children can avoid the indoctrination and programming that religion will try to place upon them at an early age they will be less apt to buy into the myth.
Dogmatic about what? Dogmas by definition are without proof, and rely solely on a supposed authority for support. I don't know if it would help you to nitpick on its definition, but on the other hand, atheists are not dogmatic. They're skeptical.
I never argued with my Catholic wife about religion. We just didn't talk about it, although she did say couple times our family "needs" religion. I never spoke as a parent to my kids about my atheism (until they asked), but I did point out how many people in the world believe in (often crazy) things without proof, and that we should always be skeptical of someone teaching something without proof. They ended up being atheists, anyway. I don't think they even asked me what I was until they were in high school.
I would have been happy with their belief in anything, as long as it wasn't just dogmatic, but a result of critical thinking and skepticism of any kind of belief "because blah blah says so".
i'm right there with you. same thing in my household.
I'm way out of the closet and the best way I know to deal with believers is to be a happy atheist.
Being even a little dogmatic would interfere with my happiness.
I like the saying Changing dogmas is easier than giving up the need for a dogma.
Have you considered shock therapy?
Tell her "God fucked up" and identify some of his many fuckups.
The fuckup I most like to identify? Practically every boy discovers orgasms and very few girls do.