Here is a rebuttal against the scientific theories, and it claims oxygen deprivation is impossible, as scholarly sources have shown that a brain deprived of oxygen has only small fragments of hallucinations which are frightening, and don't make sense at best, while NDEs make a whole lot of sense.
I would love your opinion on this.
Science ASSUMES that spiritual explanations are wrong because if they are not, you can throw everything we know about reality through science out the window. Why? Because whenever "then a miracle happens" is a possibility, no scientific conclusion can be relied upon for surety.
So, the only explanation for an NDE has to be a scientific one.
Perhaps oxygen starvation of the brain is not the explanation, but until there is a scientific explanation, it will remain an open question.
BTW, I've had three NDE's now, but they were all caused by hypoglycemia (I'm diabetic). When you're blood sugar gets down to 40, which has happened to me, you are approaching a point of no return because your metabolism has to be functioning well enough to process any sugar given you to help you recover. Once you're beyond that point, I don't think anything can be done to save you.
I agree for the most part what unseen said though I would phrase it differently.
@Unseen: if they are not, you can throw everything we know about reality through science out the window.
I do not think the supernatural (assuming it has been properly demonstrated) is a threat to science. The scientific project still continues, even if it becomes extremely difficult to record data, pose theories that stand up to testing and tweak the rule book. However the possibility of having to rewrite so much of what we know it's why scientists refuse to consider supernatural explanations, they do so because supernatural explanations never stand up to scrutiny, and also because it would be a complete waste of time rewriting theories and the rule book, before any supernatural phenomena was properly demonstrated.
@Unseen: So, the only explanation for an NDE has to be a scientific one.
The only explanation worth taking seriously is a rational one. That, however, could change if a supernatural explanation was properly demonstrated, and until that is the case (don't hold your breath), non-scientific explanations are not just irrelevant, but are simply non-arguments or "not-even-wrong".
Any explanation has to be incorporated into standard science.
Otherwise, supernatural explanations result in something you might call a cousin or even sibling of Hawking's "information paradox."
@Davis Goodman, but if oxygen deprivation was not the answer, would you still think there is another natural reason for these?
As opposed to "unnatural reasons"?
I mean I always thought the oxygen theory made sense, and I have even read about G force pilots in flight simulators who have out of body experiences, vivid drealets, and can even sometimes see a tunnel with a bright light, and family members. Many also have a sense of euphoria. Skeptics of science would say that a brain deprived of oxygen causes hallucinations which are scary, fragmented, unclear, not vivid, etc. They also claim that the G force argument is not true as this occurs in healthy people. However, G force pilots in these flight simulators are also suffering from a lack of blood supply to the brain. That is when the out of body experiences occur, when they start to see things, etc. Of course, these G loc experiences are slightly different in that they don't often give a person life reviews, and the person doesn't meet with dead family members, sometimes living family. I would say though, that this is still somewhat related. Then, in the article I posted in my question, this Keith Wood claims that many sources that are scientific claim that oxygen deprivation and hypoxia cannot cause real feeling NDEs. He also criticizes a recent Slovenian study which claims that hypoxia may cause NDEs. I don't know what to believe anymore. The G force pilots seem to demonstrate that this can occur when the brain is deprived of blood, while others say that is BS.
Here is the G Force link, which I find fascinating.
I just can't think of any other explanation if the oxygen theory is debunked, and many people also have OBEs which seem to get verified a lot. I guess my question is, even without oxygen deprivation theory, are there other theories of what may cause an NDE?
Hi Violeta - Can I ask if you have ever experienced something that you might label a NDE? You have posted a few questions about them.
I once had an OBE where I was floating above the room and looking at myself. At the time I was aware that it was an OBE. I experienced a white light sensation as if I could not perceive any other colors. It was years ago and I can hardly remember much of it, not even the sensation. I have never given it any elevated significance or considered it dramatic enough to hold any special meaning.
I also had an experience which you could call an NDE. I was a passenger in a car wreck that left the road and rolled about 7 times through a field. I remember “knowing” that I was about to die. I remember laughing to myself at the idea that I was going to spend my final few seconds studying my own death. I recall being very pleased with the fact that I was not being an “atheist in a foxhole”. As it turned out the car landed in the only marshy part of the field and we were both completely uninjured although the car was fubared.
A relation later remarked that God had intervened to “direct” the car to land safely. I asked him would it not be better if his God had prevented the oncoming drunk driver from getting behind the wheel of his car in the first place but apparently his God must have a reason that I am yet to understand, 30 years later!
I wouldn't take speculation of supernatural explanations seriously, unless one of two things happen:
1. A single case in the entire history of the world, of a supernatural phenomena being properly demonstrated
2. Exceptionally promising evidence that a concrete supernatural event explains NDE.
What that means is, if some day God appears in the sky and his enormous hand flattens Iceland, then yes, suddenly I'd be very receptive to supernatural explanations of everything.
It also means that to take a sueprnatural explanation seriously, you need an extremely well defined explanation, not something like "you have a soul" or "you entered a paralel universe" or "you experienced quantum soul leaping". What's needed is a concrete explanation, one that can be demonstrated or preferably falsified through examination/testing etc. "Souls leave the body" is not falsifiable, it is terribly vague and it actually explains nothing. What is the soul, how does it leave the body, how does it return, under what conditions does it leave the body and/or come back. If you can point out a concrete explanation and one that can be falsified and you also demonstrate promising evidence, then I think it would only be fair to take a look at the expanation. Otherwise, a waste of time.
So God shows up and flattens Hawaii or a detailed and falsifiable supernatural explanation is given with promising evidence = I would take supernatural explanation seriously.
Otherwise the best thing to do is search for rational explanations. You're 99.999% likely to find one.
So unfortunately, the onus is all on you and those who make this claim. Give us a detailed explanation and define your terms, show us how it is falsifiable AND present promising evidence (not just coincidences or a lack of information or speculation) and let's go.
"...if some day God appears in the sky and his enormous hand flattens Iceland,"
Nope won't work, Iceland is so remote that even Sharah Palin couldn't see that from her front porch.
NDE's are HorseShit, end of story.
I went through the list, and, all of the "problems" are created via false equivalency.
To pick an example, if I said people who died of malnutrition had bloated abdomens (They do), and the rebuttals were along the lines of:
People who are hungry report the following symptoms, none of which include a larger abdomen.
People who are hungry have smaller abdomens, as they have less food in them.
Studies show that skipping meals can make the stomach shrink.
Dieting makes the stomach smaller, not larger.
In short, it is quite clear that dying of starvation does NOT cause bellies to distend.
THAT in a nut shell, is the argument being made.
IE: Its total bullshit, like ALL of your NDE posts.
Have you noticed a pattern yet, or will you chose confirmation bias and resultant bad posts about bullshit, over reason, over and over again?
I like your response, thanks.
If you are feeling bored or have 15 min ever I encourage you to watch this video and tell me what you think.
This video is actually against NDEs. Although it doesn't exactly disprove them, I find it cool that malfunctioning brain can produce some of the NDE feelings. It doesn't debunk it, but it might lead us to some pathway of understanding it.