If China's growth is subsidized at all, it's surely subsidized by the amount of goods we buy from them.

But they are a growing competitor with the United States and clearly want to control Asia and the Pacific.

Meanwhile, we have a border problem with Mexico, another country with a lot of impoverished citizens. If we're going to do a lot of trade with a country, Mexico makes a lot more sense than China. Improving their economy could eventually totally eliminate the problem of undocumented "illegal" workers coming across the border for work.

Yet, I hear neither candidate promoting this idea? Why don't they?

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It would seem all the more urgent, then, to wean ourselves slowly of China.

Wow, eight whole percent of our public debt!

If all that debt that China holds is such a problem, what do you think of the other 92%?

Why do people fixate on Chinese held debt when it is such a small percentage of the problem?

A lot of Mexicans are going to school here, including college. Perhaps they could be incented to export some of their expertise back to Mexico.

I'm afraid that as long as politicians culture fear as their ally and Americans buy their rhetoric, we'll never actually educate ourselves enough to compete well with China. Promoting business with Mexico is a longer-term proposition than quick retail profits on Chinese products.

People will continue to blame NAFTA for our woes, too.

I used to love reading fiction, now I just read threads like these.  Please continue.

This isn't the sort of thing that a government just 'decides'.  Even with all the subsidies, tariffs, and regulation, the U.S. economy is still largely based on a free market that reacts rapidly to competition.  China simply produces the correct quality of goods for the cheapest price - and when they fail to do so the market seeks those products elsewhere.  To date, that elsewhere tends to remain in the Asian pacific.  If Mexico could compete then the U.S. would be buying from them.

I do agree, in large part, with the sentiments expressed here; but it seems to me that this issue would be more appropriate for a political forum.  However, if we are going to detour this far from atheism, I have a few things I would like to discuss, such as the right wing myth of American exceptionalism.  Anybody want to weigh in on that?


The root causes of the present American financial embarrassment are deep and tangled.  Fiat currency, being necessary for ballooning capitalism, allows for gross mismanagement.  The smoke screen set up by using a quasi-privatized central bank/reserve obscures the festering problem, and introduces increased opportunity for corruption/mismanagement.  On top of all of this, the rise of multinational corporations (who have lobbied successfully for fewer trade barriers) has lead to most American manufacturing utility being exported.

On that final point, that manufacturing utility is no longer owned by U.S. based corporations.  The Chinese produce and export goods all on their own, and we (including us Canadians) choose to buy these goods everyday.

I agree to all of that, but would add that we're so much more a consumerist society than we were 50 years ago. We became so successful at it that we never saw or cared about how (part of) the rest of the world would be able to rise up for their own piece of the pie.

@Pope Paul

This is part of what I was alluding to when I mentioned 'ballooning capitalism'.  It wasn't just a matter of not caring about the rest of the world wanting a piece of the pie, it was a matter of not caring exactly how all that pie was being financed in the first place.  The entire American economy turned into a sort of pyramid scheme, turning lots of receipts as everyone scurried to get in on the game, without ever accounting for the fact that there were more receipts than actual dollars.

Didn't that begin about the time the US went off the gold standard?

Personally I think the gold standard wasn't a viable way of managing U.S. currency - although it would have enforced brutal honesty.  A modern, industrialized country in a world economy needs to be able to control its currency more dynamically that a commodity standard would allow.

On the other hand, losing that standard really loosened the reigns on just how obscure the US$ could be.  That isn't where the corruption began, but it was a landmark on the way to financial ruin.


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