I'm being straight up and honest, I think atheist are the cream of da crop in a world of theist.  I say this because I know one thing about all atheist, they can figure out B.S.  That's why I'm asking this pointed question, do you think this is racist?


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I have to disagree, Shabaka. Symmetry has been correlated with levels of attraction in humans, not just Europeans. Japanese people, and all races, can have facial symmetry while not remotely resembling Europeans.

The attraction to symmetry has been observed in all humans, none excluded. It's not something that was thrust on all of us as a standard, but has been pre-existing in all of our subconsciousness, and finally noted by scientists/researchers.

Eye-shape has nothing to do with whether one side of the face closely mirrors the other, and so altering the shape of the eyes is not going to assist in achieving symmetry... unless one eye already did not resemble/match the other. There have always been unrealistic standards of beauty for women to live up to. Western culture did not influence Chinese women to bind their feet to keep them small, nor did it convince Kayan women to put rings on their neck to stretch them as long as possible. Also, Western women are victims as well... breast implants, botox, lipo suction, face lifts... all women are striving to live up to a standard of beauty that is unnatural.

But all that really has nothing to do with how symmetric our faces are. It's a subconscious attraction that has spanned the ages, and reached across cultures. We can note that someone's face is more symmetric, and that a lot of people tend to be attracted to this symmetry, without making the subjective claim that this face should be the standard of beauty internationally.

"I have to disagree, Shabaka. Symmetry has been correlated with levels of attraction in humans, not just Europeans. Japanese people, and all races, can have facial symmetry while not remotely resembling Europeans"


OK but this is NOT about attraction this is about PERFECTION as it pertains to beauty.  And also remember that Colgates face was the PERFECT example symmetry and it just so happens to be on a Europeans' face???? backed by scientific research...

I used the example of eye rounding to show that other cultures, because of propaganda like this, have internalized the idea that the European phenotype is the WORLD STANDARD of beauty, which it is not. It's not just in eyes, it's in hair, skin color, shape of legs, etc.


"We can note that someone's face is more symmetric, and that a lot of people tend to be attracted to this symmetry, without making the subjective claim that this face should be the standard of beauty internationally"

I agree but this was not the case with this "research" and IMO this is why it was racist.  As of today, the European controls to a great extent the academic discourse because they have controlled information thru their institutions and uses "science and religion" to make it legitimate.  (Mind you I'm not saying all science is illegitimate, we know about religion)  When the early Europeans went out into the world, their idea, their world view was unique among the brown and black peoples they encountered. That had to change and this "research" is an example of how it was done.......Sorry Coleen, you my homie, but like I said, I look inward..

Further history tell us (and atheist should relate to this) that when the Africans were first enslaved in the U.S. they were given this book with this picture of a blond haired blue eyed god named jesus and today they still worship that blond haired blue eye god..

Images are powerful and when they are back by science, wow!  This is why I made mention of this in the first place, we must all be aware of not just overt racism, but subtle racism as well, or not, it depends on your intellect...

Not racist at all, but it is really stupid. beauty really is in the eye of the beholder.certain people are simply attracted to certain features. I know girls at my high school that I think look better than her.

Also, what does the article writer mean by "pretty" (the researchers referred to researched perfection, not prettiness)?

There are a range of concepts in this general area. Take Charlize Theron or Megan Fox who are beautiful but hardly cute in any sense of the word. If you like cute girls, how about Alyson Hannigan (in the Buffy years) or Zooey Deschanel?

Personally, I prefer cuteness to gorgeousness.

do u know I have no idea about how any of those women look, in fact the only one I heard of by name is the Fox woman.  To me perfection is even more dangerous than pretty, at least people can assume they know what pretty is to them, but perfection, well that takes more of the scientific method to determine..

I have no idea what is gorgeousness..

I know what all of them look like, and if you'd get off your duff and google up images, you would, too. You don't know what "gorgeous" is? You're not a native English speaker, then This is what dictionaries are for.

Ghost this was a "SCIENTIFIC" study...not opinion, of what is beautiful..

I gained some insight from a minority girl once who explained why non-white women admire western women so much, and the answer might surprise you. She said that nonwhite women come, in some respects, in one variety: darker skin, black hair, brown eyes. Now look at white women: hair ranging from naturally white (platnum blonde) to black with every shade of brown, red, and blonde in between. Eyes. While some whites have brown eyes, there is also a range of colors going from light gray to dark brown with green, blue, and even purple eyes in between. Skin tones: clear pale white all the way to rather dark. Then you add in things like freckles, which many people like.

This is why you see Asian or African girls who've dyed their hair blond or red or who've adopted colored contact lenses so that they aren't so limited in their appearance.

Now, I, like many white guys, really dig a beautiful 100% "as is" Asian or Black girl, but apparently that doesn't count in their minds.

lol sorry but my head spun when I looked at this.. what in the world is a "minority girl?"  Just curious, you afraid of the word "white" when talking about your group?

lol sorry but that explanation sucks.. my cousin has blond hair, and my uncle has blue eyes.

I have a question, if the original European phenotype was blond hair, blue eyes and very little melanin in their skin, hair and eyes, and the original African phenotype was dark hair, dark eyes and a lot of melanin in their skin, hair and eyes, how did you get "whites" with black hair and black eyes and Africans with blond hair and blue eyes.. Race is a social construction and you think in terms of race.. I on the other hand think in terms of CULTURE.. That's why when you look over my comments I more times than not use the term European or African CULTURE.

Again wth is a "minority girl?"  unseen...

BTW. most of those Asian or Black "girls" think in terms of race too..that's why they wear blue contacts and blond wigs..

Except of course that 'blond hair/blue eyes' is not the 'original European phenotype'. (Not that there is an 'original European phenotype' at all. If you want a original phenotype, all there is is human)

Blue eyes come from a specific mutation that occurred 6-10 thousand years ago. All humans with blue eyes come from that original mutation, but not all people living in Europe had (or have) the mutation, so some people had blue eyes, some had brown, others green, etc. And (with the exception of the blue eye mutation) eye color is dependent on the amount of melanin in the iris.

and u talk about christians making up stuff...the "original mutation" WAS the European phenotype.  And the not all people living in Europe had blue eyes part..you bet your bippy, that's why I asked the question, how did they get em?

I'm not convinced about the 6-10 thousand years part.. Somatic mutation..




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