When watching debates and interviews with atheists i always agree with them. However they tend to say that if you believe in god(s) you are stupid or that religion is "idiotic". Now i certainly agree that religion can be harmful, religious institutions are not always a force for good. But telling someone of faith so bluntly that they are wrong and in such a harsh way, surely that would only distance them from the idea of becoming non-religious or atheist. There are intelligent people who are theist and everyone has had moments in their life were an all knowing, kindly and loving god looks quite appeasing. Maybe instead of insulting them we should show that we understand where they are coming from and that we see their point, and slip in words like "however you must admit that..." or "the evidence is overwhelming..." so that it doesn't seem as though we see ourselves as being on some sort of higher ground. Then maybe they would be more comfortable and more open to new ways of thinking and ideas rather then being angry and constantly being on the defense or attacking.

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Religion has to do with philosophy so of course everything good religion has done, can be done without it.

But it has nothing to do with it being an 'Atheist' mindset.  You have elitism in every part of life and in every religion.  It is a trait that has to do with being human , not a lack of belief in a Deity.  I read the Dawkins forums and I have watched all his debates but I don't see many comments composed of theists being stupid - But they are Delusional.  There is a big difference.  One is a fact and the other is an opinion.  Also when an Atheist might say something that suggests religion is stupid or believing in religion is stupid is not the same thing as saying people who believe in religion are stupid all around ... just when it comes to believing in invisible men who hand out answered prayers to some and not to others.  


To call the followers of Dawkins a Religion is just silly.  It could be thought of as a fan club , but they are just like minded individuals who enjoy the company.  There are also some females in the fan club , one being 'In your face New Yorker' who is quite popular over there. 


So I'm not picking apart what you say , I'm just questioning the validity of fairly transparent claims, most of which I did not and still don't get the sense of them originally being 'satirical'


If you are going to make generalizations about how atheists think theists are are stupid in an atheist forum I am sure you can handle a bit of disagreement ;)

Not a human trait?  It's been imposed?  Imposed by whom if not humans!?  


I never argued Delusional is not an insulting term.  I argued it is a fact.  Big difference.  

I wouldn't say Christians are not stupid because it's insulting.  I wouldn't say it because it isn't true.


The level of insult of a statement has absolutely no bearing on whether or not the statement is true.  

No Dustin its not just you,That post is probably the most nonsensical rubbish I have ever read on T.A and the link to the video (which I switched off half way through) pretty much summed up the type of person who wrote the post.what he writes about empirical methods has made my rationalism take over and dismiss all his future posts from now on.Your judgement of character is fine Dustin.
Atheism is the conclusion necessitated by empiricism (not to mention logic).  Since Darwin's time, if not longer, believers have been trying to convince everyone that atheism is limited to strong atheism and that it is therefore a belief with a burden of proof that it cannot meet.  This is intellectual dishonesty.
I even see in some of these postings on this website people bashing other people posts because a person does not agree with them or questions that person, or bashing postings about people who believe in god, which really bothers me. I say that some people need to believe in a religion and it works for them, so let them be. However, religion does not work for everyone, so I personally do not feel the need to explain myself or attack other people for their beliefs. No one is better then anyone else, and the atheists that feel the need to insult other people's beliefs are harming the atheists who believe in treating others as they would want to be treated. They are also giving people bad examples of what atheists believe in or how they act.
If you want to talk about how people want to be treated , I want my beliefs to be questioned and ridiculed if they are deemed as delusional or inconsistent.  So I guess I'm following the advice of treating others as I want to be treated?
LoL , I guess people who believe the holocaust never happened or that Elvis is still alive are not delusional then : P

Some people are "better" than others... I have never raped, robbed, killed, tortured, or any number of horrible things to other people. Those people SUCK - I AM BETTER - so are you. If you condone or accept them as equals to people that don't do that -or maybe they can be "reformed" WTF. Nope no forgiveness of horrible violent douche-baggery.

People that act civilized do so in spite of what/how their book tells to treat others.

People have changed - the holy books have not-

Not stupid???- please explain witch burning, the Inquisition, Fatwas, and self flagellation, or the like -- 

Maybe we need to redefine the word stupid- or willful ignorance, ignoring common knowledge and disregard of "facts" as far as we know them.

Immaculate Conception - really- is that not as idiotically stupid as possible-???? Walking on water, flying horses, unicorns, trolls, giants, 6-900 year old people building arcs??? Wisdom coming from Athena escaping Zeus' head??? Where do we draw the line? Bigfoot? Loch Ness Monster??? Alien Abductions? Chi? Power lines? Dowsing? Ghosts? Astrology? End of the world predictions?

At some point reality needs to be introduced- or is that an attack/insult on religion/belief? 

If that is not delusional stupidity we need a new definition of what stupid means.

Calling a person out on delusions is not bad- it's not torture - and not a bad example- Just go to a Medieval torture museum- SEE with your own eyes what stupidity can do- watch the Taliban blow up others religious monuments or fly planes into buildings- pro-lifers murdering  doctors and others- priests molesting children---- NO THAT"S NOT STUPID?

And you/we are NOT better than that?

I am better than that---and them- I am in fact very good, awesome and wonderful- as a musician, artist and human- Don't care at all if it "insults" their delusional belief that allows that behavior.

I do treat people as I want to be treated- that is why I am/try to be, respectful and courteous to all-even when not earned or deserved.

And respect for someone telling me the world is flat or pink unicorns are real or some other woo???????????? sorry that is wrong- Is that disrespectful to call it so- does that make me an asshole to say it's bunkum and lot's of it. How much shit do you wade through before you have to call it BS????

How do you act? Do you just say it's OK to teach fairy tales in school? Or if you say no to that are you a "bad example" of an atheist? Please don't speak for us all- about "bashing" Zeus, Baal, Wotan, or any other fictional deity you or your friends may believe in. Sorry (not really) if that bothers you. You obviously have more tolerance for that than I. 

When someone asks what you "believe" , whether or not you, "feel the need" to explain- how do you respond?  Let them be- they won't let you be... they come to your house, knock on your door- put pamphlets on your car, in your hand. I have never had an atheist do that- NOT ONCE, EVER. Have you?


Excellent post, Kelin.  Whenever anyone asks me "why can't you just leave them alone?" I have a hard time responding because my lower jaw is on the floor.  I would love to leave them alone.  I have tried to leave them alone.  THEY won't leave ME alone. 


One response that you can give to people who say this is that this is like suggesting that African-Americans leave white racists alone and suggesting that their racism simply makes them feel better and that they aren't hurting anyone.  Technically, this is an accurate analogy and a good response, but I find that anyone who needs to hear it doesn't get it.

I know some very articulate and intelligent theists, though I would say they are in the minority.  I tend to believe that everyone has blind spots, and some people are blind to how much their religion just doesn't make sense.  This has little to do with intelligence.


For example, I got into a discussion today with a guy who set out to prove that homosexuality was wrong, by using the bible.  I asked him why he was leaving out all the other things the bible says is wrong, and what he does with all the things that we recognize as wrong today which the bible condones.  The poor man started spitting and sputtering like he was about to have a heart attack.  I then walked away, I think it was too much for him to handle since he had spent his entire life without anyone asking him those questions.  Big Blind Spot.  I accept that I have blind spots too, but by definition, I don't know what they are.


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