When watching debates and interviews with atheists i always agree with them. However they tend to say that if you believe in god(s) you are stupid or that religion is "idiotic". Now i certainly agree that religion can be harmful, religious institutions are not always a force for good. But telling someone of faith so bluntly that they are wrong and in such a harsh way, surely that would only distance them from the idea of becoming non-religious or atheist. There are intelligent people who are theist and everyone has had moments in their life were an all knowing, kindly and loving god looks quite appeasing. Maybe instead of insulting them we should show that we understand where they are coming from and that we see their point, and slip in words like "however you must admit that..." or "the evidence is overwhelming..." so that it doesn't seem as though we see ourselves as being on some sort of higher ground. Then maybe they would be more comfortable and more open to new ways of thinking and ideas rather then being angry and constantly being on the defense or attacking.

Tags: atheists, debates, theists

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Not necessarily idiotic. I would characterize them more as victims of centuries of cultural brainwashing. Some of them are definitely morons. But the majority are just victims of the culture they were raised in, and forced indoctrination by parents, church leaders, etc.
Hmm.  I agree that this is where their delusion comes from in the first place, but how does that explain consistently ignoring rational, reasonable explanations as to why their theories are invalid?  You really have to wonder how people can hold on to superstitions when they are proved wrong time and again.

Which is understandable to a certain degree, but in almost no other aspect of a person's life, are they like that.  That's what baffles me.

I have found the opposite to often be true.  They are frequently incapable of admitting fault, error, or mistake.  And, they frequently lack insight into most other subjects as well--even if they have memorized a lot of "facts" about the other subjects.

Yes, actually you are right.  When it comes to subjects that require insight, their ability to make an emotional decision and then only acknowledge facts (or usually suppositions) that support that view is unsurpassed.

 

I was specifically talking about subjects that don't require any insight.  Sorry I didn't say that.  Things like math and certain basic demonstrable physics.

 

But, yes, when it comes to anything that involves emotions, like politics, then those people definitely won't admit any faulty thinking.

The reason I would give for this is that, unlike most things that people learn, religious belief tends to be drilled into peoples' heads at a very early age, and is forced on them in such a way that they become psychologically conditioned to automatically rationalize any inconsistencies in their beliefs as part of "god's mystery" or some similar shit. They also tend to be conditioned to such a degree that they can't even conceive of a world in which there was no skydaddy watching over them.

 

These are not good reasons for their belief, of course, but the indoctrination they experience from culture and authority effectively stunts their ability to think rationally about this subject. It appeals to emotion and becomes so closely tied to their psyche that at even the slightest hint of doubt, their own mind automatically throws up psychological barriers to prevent even the slightest hint of rationality from slipping through to their religious sensibilities.

 

Religion is essentially a culturally instituted neurological disorder which prevents rational thought in specific situations. This gives politicians and clergymen a nice area where they can operate in such a way that allows them to convince even the most intelligent people of the most idiotic ideas, provided this type of theological conditioning has been properly developed.

The question then becomes:

Are stupid people easier to indoctrinate?

Uneducated people are easier to indoctrinate.  Anyone with a compromised ability to reason through a problem is easier to indoctrinate.  So, I guess the answer to your question is yes.  Anyone who has difficulty with the reasoning process, either through lack of experience, lack of maturity, or just plain stupidity is much easier to indoctrinate.  That's why it's so important for religious people to push their delusions on children.  If they can get them believing young enough, it's much easier to suck them in and keep them from thinking for themselves for a longer time period.

Hey TAA.  You seem to enjoy playing "devil's advocate" here.  Just wondering, are you by any chance religious or do you just like getting people to explain things? 

 

BTW, I'm not saying it's bad to get people to explain things at all.  I rather enjoy it.  I think it really improves a person's debating skills, which I believe that anyone who wants to get in the ring with a xian needs.  Just curios what your stance is.  :)

Neither. I just get a little annoyed at people who call others stupid for doing the exact same behaviour they themselves were recently doing... Personally I do think religious/enlightenment/theist people are stupid, not always of their own making, but nonetheless. I was raised on critical thinking, I've never known any other way. Not saying I was easy on my parents/teachers though nope. A kid with a mind of her own never is. In society, usually people either conform or rebel.

Well, in that case I think you are unwittingly doing people a favor.  If someone makes a blanket statement of "they are all stupid", that person needs to be called out.  Personally, I don't think we need to go "easy" on religious people, or even really show much respect for their delusions.  On the other hand, it does us no service at all to generalize (unless you are specifically saying you are generalizing) and make personal attacks on people because of their delusion.  I think it is much better to make concise, unemotional statements that make people think. When we drop into emotional arguments, we are playing on their field and they have much more practice at irrational arguments than we do.

 

What you are unintentionally doing is making people actually think about their position and articulate it in a way so as to bring out any absurd, uninformed sentiments.  I think that is a very good thing. So, for that, thanks!  :)

In my travels I have found that religious people for the most part are anti-intellectual and under-educated!

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