When watching debates and interviews with atheists i always agree with them. However they tend to say that if you believe in god(s) you are stupid or that religion is "idiotic". Now i certainly agree that religion can be harmful, religious institutions are not always a force for good. But telling someone of faith so bluntly that they are wrong and in such a harsh way, surely that would only distance them from the idea of becoming non-religious or atheist. There are intelligent people who are theist and everyone has had moments in their life were an all knowing, kindly and loving god looks quite appeasing. Maybe instead of insulting them we should show that we understand where they are coming from and that we see their point, and slip in words like "however you must admit that..." or "the evidence is overwhelming..." so that it doesn't seem as though we see ourselves as being on some sort of higher ground. Then maybe they would be more comfortable and more open to new ways of thinking and ideas rather then being angry and constantly being on the defense or attacking.

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It certainly is very different in America then in the UK. I have an American cousin that told me about this presenter called Glen Beck, and after watching some clips on youtube i seriously could not believe he had his own programme. How could they give people like that the light of day? He actually gave me the impression that he was mental. But anyway, i mean in proper debates but yes i see your point. People who spread hate are just hiding behind the shield of religion, in my opinion.

Amelia,if your from the u.k like me I know exactly what your on about with Glenn Beck,my jaw nearly hit the floor when I saw him too,but most of the people on here think the same he's only popular with the Christian right wing,tea party republicans.I've found I know a little more about U.S politics since reading some of the discussions.

I'm glad it isn't like that here. It makes me kinda glad and grateful that i live in England (which has a much higher number of atheists) and that i can speak freely about what i think. It makes me sad when i hear of people who are "closet atheists".

News is much more objective in europe rather then subjective.

My aunt is secular and adores the man.  Everything she spews in a conversation is just so Glen Beck'esque it is sickening.  She is tied into the bigotry and fear that he lavishes upon his audience with his pathetic whimpering and tear induced rants.  I don't pay attention to anything she says anymore honestly.  Her brain has been dehumanized because of this mans nonsense.


Democrats and Republicans both are drinking from the same bowl of misinformation.  But you my friend may have had too much to drink.

What are stupid facts? 

Oh a correlation between political party and belief?  Shocking

So my friend are you stupid for believing in evolution?  Are you saying because you are a minority you must be right?


I missed the part where you cited evidence that these people are wrong.  I caught the part where you called them names to defend your weak stance.


You are without a doubt a religious individual. 


Will he respond with put-downs or with evidence?  We shall see.



I doubt that Doone is religious, since he specified that "a plurality of Americans believe in fairy tales is distressing".  Yes, he is definitely ranting, but sometimes we all need to do that.

The problem is, he isn't that far off base.  I've heard the statistic that 40% of Americans are young earthers enough to accept it and that just scares the crap out of me.  I mean that basically means that 2 out of 5 people that you have contact with on a daily basis are delusional.  And delusional to the point that they willfully ignore proven scientific evidence in lieu of their own wishful thinking.  I don't know how many times I've heard people talk about "if evolution is a 'theory', why can't we force religious 'theory' down every child's throat?" Of course, I am paraphrasing, but you get the drift.  These people have absolutely no understanding of the general term "theory" as it applies to religion (abstract thought : speculation) and a "Scientific Theory" (a concept that is accepted in the scientific community that explains scientific observations). 

As for the term "accepting stupid facts", I don't really get that.  There are no "stupid facts", simply "stupid conclusions".  Facts are facts.

I do have to admit here, that I am, more or less, republican.  I find it so sad that I can't find a republican to vote for!  It seems that most people in the republican party only focus on the one piece of forcing xianity down everyone else's throats and don't follow any of the other republican values.  Needless to say, I am exactly the opposite of that.

Justadude, I think you hit the nail on the head when you say republicans and democrats drink the same cool-aide.  The only difference is that democrats want to take everyone's money to "support" the poor (read: get them just enough to get them dependent on the government) and the republicans want to take everyone's money to give to their banking and oil buddies.


But back to the real discussion, I think that the only way to get religious people to start thinking is to stay calm and just present the facts.  I know it can be extremely frustrating, since you have to do it over and over to get through their shell of delusion.  Another important thing is to not get dragged down into their delusion with them.  When they say "well, this one sentence in the bible PROVES...", I think it's important to not give that sentence any strength in the discussion.  My response tends to be that the bible is so flawed, so corrupt, so inconsistent that nothing that it says can be taken seriously.  Sure, you can get a sentence or two that sounds good, and you might even be able to glean some useful wisdom, if you look at it right, but there is so much wrong in the bible that it in no way supports any deductions related to unsubstantiated superstition.  Yes, "love thy neighbor" and "turn the other cheek" are good advice.  But that advice is in no way special.  Buddha gave very much the same message (and substantially better advice) 2500 years before christ was even believed to have been born.  The inconsistencies, contradictions, and flat out logical fallacies of the bible render it completely mundane and of no spiritual value in the least.  It is obvious that it was written by medieval, uneducated barbaric goat-herders and is nothing but delusional superstition.  Pointing out those inconsistencies and lies is a good way to not get dragged down into the line-by-line rhetoric of the religious zealot.

I have an aunt an uncle who are just like that. They love Glen Beck. It makes me sick.
Funny how whenever there is a conversation about stupid people at some point the name Glen Beck pops out))
Or a conversation about crazy people, or dangerous people, or manipulative psychopathic demagogues, etc.
heh.... I live in the US... and televangelists tend to be morons times 10. There are some intelligent theists... but there are a lot of morons. Take Ray Comfort. Bannana disproves evolution. And what about Pat Robertson... the Haitians deserved the earthquake because 200 years ago they made a pact with the devil to free them from slavery under the french.
Seriously we have a reason to want to bang our heads on the wall.
I read a response to Mr. Comfort somewhere on that point that stated that the modern banana we buy in the story was actually selectively bred to be more suitable to human hands and consumption.  The author also pointed out that one thing that nature naturally made just the right size for human hands is a mature rattlesnake--does that prove god exists?  Or, maybe, it's just a coincidence.
you'll love bill o'reliy, to answer your question, yes absolutely they are & no some are smart they apply logic into their daily lives but when religion is around they just shut all parts of their brain off, earlier i had a debate with a guy who believe the words of the bible bc it says so yeah so does Mithra, Krishna, Horus thousands of years before jesus all shared the same stories born of a virgin, miracles, came back on the 3 day etc, their stories are written in stone older then jesus


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