Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Nelson on April 30, 2011 at 1:32am

Religion is really only a group of people believing in a certain way.

if you insist on this as the definition of "religion" then, ok, yeah, i guess. but let's be sure to state unequivocally that this isn't the definition of religion that anyone uses.

if you use the defintion of religion that most people would recognize then clearly atheism has nothing to do with religion.

besides, even on your defintion it's unlcear that atheism qualifies since atheism is a group of people that DON'T believe a certain way. atheism is about what someone doesn't believe. when someone says "i'm an atheist" this tells you nothing about what they DO believe.

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Permalink Reply by allie grace on April 30, 2011 at 2:44am

ok First lets reply to this is not the definition anyone uses?

Dictionary re·li·gion 1.

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs

 

My words short and to the point Religion is really only a group of people believing in a certain way!

 

Now to address the other issue If I was to say I believe that God does not exsist then that also refers to my belief in things so it all depends on how you want to phrase your arguement.

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Permalink Reply by Akshay Bist on April 30, 2011 at 8:11am

Religion is really only a group of people believing in a certain way!

Then you could classify all sorts of organizations, like the EFF, the FSF etc as Religions.

It is a very broad definition.

The way I see it, religion is not only about belief, but also practice. Its about living life according to the tenets of the religion. Its about the things you should do - the how & why of doing them & the things you shouldn't do - they whys of not to do them.

Atheism doesn't have any of that.

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Permalink Reply by Nelson on April 30, 2011 at 11:15am

i can't actually tell if you're joking here or not.

you listed the dictionary definition of religion which says that it's a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe (which atheism has none of), especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies (which atheism has none of), usually involving devotional and ritual observances (which atheism has none of), and often containing a moral code (which atheism has none of) governing the conduct of human affairs (which atheism doesn't seek to do in any way shape or form) and then you're saying "SEE! atheism is a religion!"

your "words short and to the point" don't have any of the character of the definition you claim to be shortening while still retaining the same point.

you can't describe an apple in the space of a paragraph and then say that "anything that's round" is the same thing, short and to the point. you're no longer describing the apple and, therefore, your short and to the point version now includes anything that's round.

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Permalink Reply by Dave G on May 1, 2011 at 1:22am

You left out the "concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe' part. Given your definition, a group of people who all believe that Buffy is the best TV show ever is a religion, because they all believe the same way. Overly broad definitions are a poor way to define things and a good way to sow confusion.

 

And even with the dictionary definition, atheists do not qualify. While a great many (perhaps most) atheists subscribe to the current scientific theories about the origin of the universe, not all do. There are those who believe that the universe is cyclical, those that adhere to the hypothesis of colliding branes, those that think that M-theory is more likely correct and those who believe that our universe is an elaborate computer simulation.

 

The only property that all atheists can be assured of having in common is not believing in gods. Other traits may be very common (support for science, for example) but they are neither required of nor exclusive to atheism.

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Permalink Reply by Arcus on May 1, 2011 at 6:08am

Exactly what the definition says is that it is "a set of beliefs". I don't proclaim "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe (etc)".

My belief would then have to be in the scientific method of reaching conclusions about this based on repeatable and observable phenomena I can make predictions on that will come true. If I must be a religious in some aspect, if I am forced to point to supreme knowledge, I guess I believe in the "god" of science and "worhsip" at it's altar, the peer reviewed scientific literature.

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Permalink Reply by David M on April 30, 2011 at 4:06am

Good point on that. I think there may be some confusion of 'religion' with 'fanatic'. Many atheists can be just as fanatical and unreasoning as their theists counterparts. But that commonality of action does not equate to a commonality of organization. I have also seen some people that do try to make science or atheism into a religion, but I do not believe that such actions by the minorities should color the entire concept to that of a religion.

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Permalink Reply by Esben Wibe on May 1, 2011 at 7:22am

"when someone says "i'm an atheist" this tells you nothing about what they DO believe." ... uhm,.. well.. It tells you that the person DO believe, that there is no such thing as God(s)...

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Permalink Reply by Marcel John Bennett on April 30, 2011 at 2:54am

This is a common miss-perception of atheism, atheism is the non-belief in a god, it is not a belief that there is no god.

 

Many religious people I talk to often understand anti-theists to be atheist and this is simply not the case at all. People against all belief in a god are generally anti-theist. They often have well thought out and structured argument to support their case, and by definition are also atheist, but the term atheist does not describe their desire to argue against religious belief.

 

Many anti-theists will not begrudge someone a belief in a god, but desire for people who do, to understand that it is a belief and not a provable fact. This sort of acknowledgement reduces extremism and its acceptance in society.

 

Hope that helps :)

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Permalink Reply by allie grace on April 30, 2011 at 3:02am

Actually that was well said and I cant agree more Thank you for your reply!

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Permalink Reply by Marcel John Bennett on April 30, 2011 at 3:33am

You're welcome Allie, I would just add that etymologically speaking religion means (according to many scholars) "to reconnect" or "look back".

 

So from an etymology perspective religion is looking to the past to connect and gain meaning, while atheism is content with the now.

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Permalink Reply by allie grace on April 30, 2011 at 3:53am

Again well said I honestly think if we had more discussions with your eloquence

atheism would not have such a bad name. The very arguement I brought up

was brought up by my family and I did not honestly know how defend it. You have

helped me tremendously and if more people would argue with intellect instead of ignorance we would all benefit more.

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