You may or may not know this but I am 100% bi-sexual. Me and a girlfriend of mine got into a debate about what is pretty and what is not. So as I often say now, "OFF TO THINK ATHEIST INTERWEBS TO ASK RATIONAL PEOPLE!"
So here I am with a few questions:
I will be at work most of the day but I will be able to read most of your responses on my phone.
RE: "It is possible to be overweight and healthy"
With all due respect Cecilia, carrying extra weight adds extra work to the heart and squeezes blood vessels, constricting them and reducing blood flow. There's simply no way that can be healthy.
Of course there's hype out there, and I'm not condoning it. Men are accused of wearing the same outfits forever, while women are stereotypically accused of shopping at every opportunity. Much of that is because women are targeted by ad hype and made to feel that if they don't wear the latest, they're somehow less worthy.
Much of American advertising is geared to play on the insecurities of women, which implies advertisers believe women to be less secure and more capable of being manipulated than men, and to a degree this is true, because our society, that begins in the family unit, doesn't seem - at least as yet - to value the emotional security of girls as much as boys.
This is changing, and I'm happy to see it, but we've still a long way to go,
But whether men or women, there's nothing healthy about being overweight. That's a myth generally perpetrated by overweight people.
Please do some research the science, as I said, is not nearly as slam dunk as we have been led to believe...and, pray tell, who are these "overweight people" perpetuating this myth? A woman who is 5'3" and weights 160 pounds is considered overweight. End of discussion, she is doomed. I know this is anecdotal evidence but what if that women has excellent cholesterol levels, blood pressure, eats a healthy diet (mostly plant protein, e.g., black beans, lentils, etc, quality carbs - quinoa, brown rice, quality fats - olive oil, etc, we all know what a healthy diet is) does 5-6 hours of high intensity cardio and lifts weights, does yoga? In our society we will still say that she is not, can't possibly be (shocking to even think it) healthy...because she is fat. And the reason we think that is that we are so brainwashed to believe that thin = healthy it is painful for us to think otherwise, hurts our brains. And, yes, even that woman I described has a difficult time accepting herself as healthy even though on an intellectual level she knows she is. Again, there is research that shows that her health and longevity prospects are just fine, thank you very much, we just don't hear about it much because where is the $$$ in that?
It is not slam dunk, as you say. Some that we may consider overweight could be healthier than thinner peers. However, the fact is that weight is generally a good indicator of overall and long term health.
I think you are missing the point in all of this.. It is clearly not healthy to be obese, but this is somewhat of a moot point as I would assume this is a fairly agreed upon point. It is less than desirable to be overweight vs normal weight, and moving from being overweight to within normal bounds is not exactly outside the reach of anyone.
Your comparison between a slender person who has shitty dietary (and other) habits vs an overweight person with good habits is not a valid comparison. You have to compare ceteris paribus (all else equal) for validity, and if you do so it is clear than anyone within normal weight will have better health than someone who is overweight (and substantially better than an obese person). In addition, I don't believe i.e. smokers are exactly heralded as paragons of good health either (full disclosure: I do smoke on occasion).
Weight issues tend to be more focused on by females, though one has to take into consideration that females get these issues not because of males since the female reference groups is other females. In addition, the fashion industry is generally innovated by homosexual males which use models that resemble young men's bodies, an ideal impossible for females to comply with. Indeed, most males prefer at least some 'meat on the bones' (I can easily add more euphemisms) on women since this is a sign of higher probability of reproductive success.
Tying it back to the picture, that woman does not have a weight issue. Her body is certainly within the normal range, especially considering that she is probably holding her breath for the photo, it's been 'shoped, and thus appearing more slender than she really is. An anorexic body would have much more visible ribs and her bellybutton would not be squished laterally.
I am not clearly missing the point of all of this and you would realize that if you had a better idea of the full conversation. Since you have clearly not read all of my posts in this discussion, I am not inclined to address what you posted since you don't seem to understand the position I have put forth collectively within just the past few pages of discussion. Two posts only, really, and this was the short one. I don't want to recap every previous point in order to make a point later on in an ongoing conversation. It would be tedious and time consuming.
It was @Cecilia :)
It was @Cecilia :)
Well, that explains why it made little sense as a reply to me. Also, it explains this egg on my face. Mea culpa and apologies.
You're making the point I've been trying to make. To be fat and healthy is WORK. Eating right, getting adequate exercise. So, to be fat and healthy isn't a natural state, it's an artificial one. It's far easier (and thus more natural) to be healthy by maintaining a "healthy" weight, which coincidentally results in a person who tends to be closer to accepted standards of attractiveness. It is overweight people or people obsessed with food and body image who believe that "thin = healthy." Of course, as I've observed many times, many of those same people see a thin person and almost automatically assume anorexia or pre-anorexia, whereas many thin people also have to put up with judgments about them based on their body type. I recently witnessed a discussion about this topic in another forum in which several of the female participants who happen to be thin/slender rattled off comments about their weight that others in their lives had felt bold enough to put forward. While perhaps more women fight to keep weight off, there are indeed women who can't seem to put it on.
I do not think that it is WORK to enjoy healthy food and enjoy moving my body at all...being able to do these things is, in fact, one of the supreme pleasures of life!! Unfortunately, "fat" people are too often "told" that they are not entitled to these pleasures (unless, of course, they are doing so with grim purpose and intent to lose weight). Also, a person can maintain a "healthy" weight (whatever that means) and still not actually be healthy because they eat a crap diet, don't exercise, smoke etc yet the fat person who adheres to a healthy lifestyle is judged (or pitied or fretted over) while the thinner person who adheres to a crap lifestyle gets a pass.
Cecilia, while it may be "possible to be overweight and healthy," I'm sure that being overweight and healthy involves both exercise and attention to what one eats. Most overweight people get minimal exercise at best and eat whatever the f*** they want.
Most overweight people are not nearly as healthy as they could be, and most are probably not particularly healthy at all.
All cultures have idealized images, physical and otherwise, which not everyone can meet. This is by the nature of an ideal, paradigm, or standard. They will always be with us and always beyond the reach of most. Today, slenderness may be part of the ideal. In the past, being plump ("rubinesque") was the standard, and I'm sure the women who were naturally thin due to their genetics felt pressure then.
There is little point in wasting efforts complaining about something which isn't going to change. Another approach needs to be taken. I advocate that of making girls stronger rather trying to isolate them from ideal images.