In a sense, I know that we should respect everybody, but do we really just need to keep quiet when crazy religious people preach and yell and affect law? I personally don't think so. Maybe I am too closed minded, but I think the more vocal the atheist community becomes and LESS vocal the religious community can be the world would be better off...Faith is not based in fact, as everybody knows. So why not publicly denounce all faiths as ignorant and detrimental. 

Does anybody else have any thoughts on this?

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Great thought!

Hey Kris,

I always enjoy your sobered and cerebral posts.

You have to ask yourself not only if it is right, but if it is worth it.

This is where I see a disconnect. I largely agree with everything you're saying in that post in principle. The problem however, is that the very things you mention as being undesirable (persecution of innocents) cannot be rectified if religion remains. Religion must go. I know people don't want to hear it that bluntly, but in order to solve these problems that is the only solution. And that reduces the discussion right down to your last sentence. We must be pragmatic. For all our bad experiences and the wrongful things done to us, we have to try to put that aside and look to the future. That means at minimum, feigning respect, being sensitive to how adherents are in fact victims of abuse, and taking the overall subject of mass deconversion more seriously. That is, I think, the only durable solution.

Some believe in accomodation or incorporation. I don't. Religion must go, completely. I mean sure, there will always be believers, but what I mean by that statement is that religion must reduce to a minority status so that representative societies can put meaningful controls on the excesses of religions to stop the things you mention. Once you have that, all the private rights to religious belief can remain in place.

Of course, this is all just my heterodox little opinion, but there it is.

- kk


Next question.

ha! well put.


Respect religions, are you crazy, or as crazy as they are ? Respect the right of a person to believe in whatever blathering nonsense they choose to, and defend their right for them if need be, but actually respect their belief, NO.

Judith vd R.

Hey Judith,

Haven't shouted to you in a while. It's ironic how much two people can surprisingly agree ... in private. ;-)

- kk


respect is a sign that you are a social being., you should respect them as they respect you, in case someone is humiliating you because what you are believing or not believing, stay humble, look down., you are a great person that you can respect someone even though they are not respecting you, who do you  think looks like an evil or angel?

this is the example of being respect and not to be respect, to respect and not to respect..

Thanks MicMic, well said - kk

But you see, you are talking about respecting the individual, while the question is about respecting the belief.

And I think that the religious folk came across poorly in that video.  The only thing you need to do to really mess them up is show a copy of the invitation; that will make it quite plain who is being a bunch of jackasses and who isn't.

Bloody rampant catholic country - where the poor don't get or not allowed contraception, brainwashed by the catholic church, committing a sin if they use contraceptives, then the usual lovely xian shouting 'You're mother should have aborted you". Usual, loving kind, respectful xian - the women are walking incubators - mothers malnourished, children starving, no education, 45 percent of child deaths occur during the first month of life, 30 children per 1,000 births die before the age of five. It depends on how much money is earned -  no education,  controlled by one of the wealthiest churches in the world  - criminal, and xians wonder why Atheists are getting upset, when this shite is going on every day in third world, usually catholic countries. 

The World Health Organization calculate 800,000 abortions per year, the reason, women trying to taking control of their bodies, 'cause they sure as hell, can't buy contraceptives.

Stay humble, look down - what tripe - certainly not get into a fight with all those people shouting 'Satan", blah, blah, staying humble will not help the women who die during childbirth, the babies who die at childbirth, or the children that die from malnourishment, and when the girls are 10,11, twelve years old, they go into the prostitution trade for money from tourists. Stay humble, I don't think so.

How brave these free thinkers in third world countries are - brilliant. 


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