In a sense, I know that we should respect everybody, but do we really just need to keep quiet when crazy religious people preach and yell and affect law? I personally don't think so. Maybe I am too closed minded, but I think the more vocal the atheist community becomes and LESS vocal the religious community can be the world would be better off...Faith is not based in fact, as everybody knows. So why not publicly denounce all faiths as ignorant and detrimental.
Does anybody else have any thoughts on this?
I guess that's something that each person needs to sort out for themselves. In short, no I don't think religions inherently deserve respect. I also think that some religious folks use 'respect' as a shield to hide them from deserved criticism, which is not something I respect.
There are two basic elements to how I view the situation:
i) What do I respect? I respect the space that exists inside each persons' head to hold whatever views they please, and I respect the space inside their home or other areas of privacy where they can openly voice those views without having to invite me along. I don't go out of my way to attack the religious views of individuals, but when someone leaves them right in my path for me to trip over them, it's open season, I guess.
I also respect anyone who strives to form a world view based on their sincere and honest understanding of the evidence available to them. If that leads them to theism, I still respect it (even if I can't figure out how it happened). I try to give people the benefit of the doubt on this one, though I don't always succeed.
By this standard, my respect isn't specifically given to religious or irreligious people; however, I tend to find religious apologist employ disingenuous arguments to try and reconcile the ever growing gap between dogma and reality. So in practice, I often am disrespectful of religious views, especially those views that reinforce the persecution of others.
ii) But where does that get me? Well, the thing about being disrespectful is that it is going to put you at odds with people. Sometimes that's not a bad thing. I think it's a sickness for everyone to try to agree and pat each other on the back all the time. The problem for many atheists is that they happen to represent a small minority in a sea of religious folks. Even if, on principle, you can justify disrespect, you have to accept that it might result in stressful situations and undesirable results. You have to ask yourself not only if it is right, but if it is worth it.
I always enjoy your sobered and cerebral posts.
You have to ask yourself not only if it is right, but if it is worth it.
This is where I see a disconnect. I largely agree with everything you're saying in that post in principle. The problem however, is that the very things you mention as being undesirable (persecution of innocents) cannot be rectified if religion remains. Religion must go. I know people don't want to hear it that bluntly, but in order to solve these problems that is the only solution. And that reduces the discussion right down to your last sentence. We must be pragmatic. For all our bad experiences and the wrongful things done to us, we have to try to put that aside and look to the future. That means at minimum, feigning respect, being sensitive to how adherents are in fact victims of abuse, and taking the overall subject of mass deconversion more seriously. That is, I think, the only durable solution.
Some believe in accomodation or incorporation. I don't. Religion must go, completely. I mean sure, there will always be believers, but what I mean by that statement is that religion must reduce to a minority status so that representative societies can put meaningful controls on the excesses of religions to stop the things you mention. Once you have that, all the private rights to religious belief can remain in place.
Of course, this is all just my heterodox little opinion, but there it is.
I see all of your statements as valid, but asking the question basically means weighing the consequences of your potential actions, and, hopefully, coming to terms with the path you choose. The consequences and desired outcomes change for each person, so each person has to ask the question for themselves.
ha! well put.
Haven't shouted to you in a while. It's ironic how much two people can surprisingly agree ... in private. ;-)
respect is a sign that you are a social being., you should respect them as they respect you, in case someone is humiliating you because what you are believing or not believing, stay humble, look down., you are a great person that you can respect someone even though they are not respecting you, who do you think looks like an evil or angel?
this is the example of being respect and not to be respect, to respect and not to respect..
Thanks MicMic, well said - kk