Do we need to abandon all moral ideologies because we are atheist?

Why does it seem that there are so many atheists who want to go the exact opposite extreme of religion?  Maybe I’m more of a humanist then because I do still have a very strong ethical code that I decided on using logic and a true sense of compassion towards others.  Moral judgment can be based on the net positives it can provide for the whole of society.  Aren’t we all striving to improve ourselves and our communities? Freedom is a wonderful thing worth fighting for, but if those freedoms are not for the betterment of society then we must question if that particular freedom would be best if regulated instead.

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Human morality and ethics evolved long before and quite separate from any religion, especially crapstianity and jesse's crap; that's the way both sound to me anyway. ;-)

"Doing the right thing" was a positive action in the early hominid groups and they must have collectively realized it and reinforced the idea probably before humans developed the language to express it.

They just misappropriated the moral high ground before anyone saw it coming and having done so that claimed that all who didn't agree with their version was a "sinner" and headed to the hot place; sort'a like Texas this June.  100 deg. F in Decatur today and all this week; whew!

One can only wonder why some bible-pounder hasn't realized how much fun it is for us sinners to get it on in air conditioned rooms when compared to un air conditioned and started trying to outlaw AC systems or at least to call them agents of the devil and sin. ;-)


Agreed, that's stupid.  However, in relation to the very concept of religion I am "exact opposite".  I do not do the church thing in any shape, form or fashion and have not set foot in a sanctuary for over 20-years and have no intention of ever doing so for the rest of my life. 

Be that as it may that does not imply that I abandon all moral precepts; I am the "exact opposite extreme" as I place a high value on morality and ethical behavior rather than give it only public lip service as I've seen many "believers" do.  Religion allows some to be the "exact opposite extreme" as they claim it's justified by some stupid and idiotic verse in some nefarious volume of Bronze Age utterances they call their bible.

[...] religious claim that people cannot be moral without religion [...]


The problem with that statement is that the emphasis has been shifted to an erroneous paradigm. It is NOT about CAN or CANNOT. We all "can".


Any child will learn any morals you teach them. Later on in life, experiences will create amendments to those morals, but overall, morality is set in early infancy.


Anyone "can" be moral, the point is do "I" have to abide by "your" morals. In this modern globalised world, many people would like to impose their sense of morality onto others, that is where the word "morality" is horribly abused, some say it's nothing but a personal sense of ethics, which I entirely disagree with. Morality is created/written, by a human, within a given social context, in order to create ORDER. The very essence of the word morality is that it's a set of rules, the question is  WHO creates those rules, you or me?????? The people who wrote the bible and religious tenets which are taught to children had a political agenda. And to be blind to that political agenda is equivalent to willfull blindness.

Where are all these atheists abandoning all ethics???  I think this is just christian bullshit.

Everything is relative. You may think you have some strong ethical code, but we are all corruptable.  I once held myself to some high standard, but something happened.  I fell below the standard I had set for myself.  It felt horrible to be betrayed by my own self, but we cannot judge ourselves so harshly.  We will make mistakes.  We are not perfect. I find it much better to just live believing I will make good decisions, but knowing that I will make mistakes. The important part is learning from our mistakes.  The best part is hearing from others that you have a "good heart".


I don't feel any set of standard morals that define my life.  Most people have a good sense of what is appropriate behavior ("good") and what is inappropriate behavior ("bad").  I don't believe in good and evil as metaphysical forces, influences or presences.  The supernatural connotations of these words to me are misleading. 

I don't wish to ever kill, but I will if I have to (in self-defense or the defense of others).  I don't steal, but what if my family is starving and my only options are to steal or watch my family die?


Morals are usually defined by society and learned while growing up.  We learn which behaviors are acceptable and which are not.  Sometimes people do not learn how to discern from "right" and "wrong" and society either punishes them or tries to help them.


What comes into question is which behavior has negative effects who or what is affected?  I think people should be free to be as immoral as they want within the confines of law.  There are consequences to our actions.  Society determines how to deal with immoral behavior which negatively affects that society or violates the rights of others.  We make laws and change them.  We have a constitution which guides us in the laws that we make.  We are free to ammend it.



We should not regulate freedoms which do not work for the betterment of society.  Instead, we should regulate the behaviors which negatively affect society.


We all pay for eachother's mistakes one way or another.

I will try to post more later.  My browser is old and my internet connection is lousy until I get home in August.

We just dont get our moral guidance from a book written in the bronze age. Killing is not wrong because a space god says its wrong, in fact more killing is done in the name of a god. If there was no religion I think people would still come together and agree "hey lets not slaughter each other and steal stuff"
Killing is not "wrong", it is simply unacceptable in our society, and especially irritating when it happens to a family or peer member.
Killing is completely wrong. It violates the innate morality of our species. There are certain things that are innately wrong which can not be justified on Darwinian terms: killing, stealing, raping, cannibalism. If our species accepted these acts, we would have been extinct long ago.

Killing and cannibalism is certainly justifiable in evolutionary terms!!!!!!!

There are many many species where young are cannibalised! Brush up on your biology 101! Cannibalism is simply an extra population control, aiding in the prevention of overuse of resource availability.


Biologically speaking, weeding out the weakest among us is entirely natural and beneficial to the species as a whole. Mandating survival of every individual in any species is a recipe for species weakening.


As in all matters of life and death, we should be striking a balance, humans fail miserably at finding balance, in no small part due to religion.


Animal species in which cannibalism is common are certainly not going extinct!

Absolutely not. It is against the survival of our species. If killing and cannibalistic activity was a norm accepted by our species, we would have been extinct by now. Nearly all evolutionary biologists such as Richard Dawkins states this fact.


I am speaking about homo sapiens, not other animals. In fact, we are social animals and the ways we have been able to survive, progress, and evolve has been through social cooperation, not through individualistic selfish acts. There is a reason why we have mirror neurons.

Cannibalism is never a "norm" it just tends to happen in societies, especially when the resource to individuals ratio goes below a certain point. But it's not only reptiles and amphibians and insects and fish that practice it, apes do it too:

And human tribes have done it as well, although religious imperialism has pretty much ended those practices.


There is a fundamental principal of biology you are forgetting in many of your posts, death is an important - necessary - part of the evolutionary process. It may be achieved through any number of methods.


Death is not wrong, it simply causes sadness. The Humanist obsession, which is derived from the Christian obsession, with the sanctity of life, is simply ecologically unsustainable. One cannot efficiently manage a society where all things "nice" and "fun" and "pleasurable" are qualified as "moral" and all things NOT are called immoral, that is a fundamental flaw of Humanism. Life is made up of happy moments and sad moments and to obsess on the happy ones is an unbalanced vision of life.


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