Do we need to abandon all moral ideologies because we are atheist?

Why does it seem that there are so many atheists who want to go the exact opposite extreme of religion?  Maybe I’m more of a humanist then because I do still have a very strong ethical code that I decided on using logic and a true sense of compassion towards others.  Moral judgment can be based on the net positives it can provide for the whole of society.  Aren’t we all striving to improve ourselves and our communities? Freedom is a wonderful thing worth fighting for, but if those freedoms are not for the betterment of society then we must question if that particular freedom would be best if regulated instead.

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The really big question is where on earth did you get the idea that people before Christianity had had "Christian values". There are moralists who opine this, but there is no archeological evidence that would entice us to think such things. Even the very first Christians had major disagreements about morals with Jews. One Islamic moral I find quite interesting is the "immorality of passive income" such as interest, yet no sign of that moral anywhere in our Western "moral" landscape.

 

What justification do you have to get all excited about your ability to question the existence of gods, yet denigrate other questioners by calling them childish? Seems irrational to me. Questioning dogmas is always a valid thought process.

Actually if you follow the written trail of studies, you'll find that "most" studies do not say this about the prison system. Actually, if you Google the ONE study that says atheists are grossly under-represented in jails, you will find that the "only 2% of atheists in jails" come from a single ex jail worker who sent personal correspondence to a journalist (not like a leak or anything) but those numbers in the correspondence were from ONE only USA jail and those numbers were never published in anything peer-reviewed. (I'm going to let readers do their own finger work because I've found that most atheists are just as guilty as religious people of confirmation bias and giving people an answer just elicits denialism anyway.)

 

Among Northern Western countries, there does seem to be an advantage to atheist countries, but let me place a bug in that assessment:

Northern Western countries have suffered less immigration, they are much more homogeneous and therefore social structures and rules are more generally agreed upon. Most people think multiculturalism at a national level is a good thing, I disagree. Multi-ethnic countries are more prone to social strife. France USED to be a haven of peace, but not any more. Sweden was for several decades a haven of peace, but that is changing too. Countries with high immigration ratios increase social strife, (which I'm not necessarily relating to more violence/crime).

 

The high criminal activity and violence in the USA has little to do with religion or guns (half as many guns per capita than Canadians) and everything to do with the perfect trifecta conditions of high multi-ethnicity/high population/social inequity. And those aren't about to change :(

Present day morality is constructed on 100s of precepts created by the ever full of lies bible and geographically relevant other holy books. Were it not for such books, our moral code would be entirely different. Whether we would even call our socials rules "morals" is up for grabs. You are correct about the Humanist bit. Humanism has evolved from Christianity, trying to be "nicer" Christians. Eventually, many Humanists dropped god entirely, but still have Christian values, becoming in essence godless Christians. Religions and their associated morals have given us our overpopulation of humans through the obsession of the "preciousness" of human life, at the cost of all other life forms. Religion served as a social organiser, "unity in strength" and united large groups of people and enabled them to live together, whereas they would have remained culturally/geographically separated otherwise. Perpetrating religious morals will simply insure that humanity continues on its destructive path. The very fundamentals of our social organisation need to be questioned. One cannot in true integrity throw away "god" and yet keep all "god's" teachings and stupidity. Throwing away god is but the tiny first step.
If that were so, if as many claim, morals were universal, there would be no variation in morals around the world and through history. Morals are different for everyone because individuals (in the name of god) have shaped morals. I would sincerely prefer we drop the use of the word "moral" all-together, and simply create sets of rules which are reasonable for each individual society. Humans have these obsessions with making rules (and morals) that cannot be lived by (or difficult to enforce) which is why humans are constantly cheating them. If we were more humble in our rule setting, more realist, there would be less rule cheating.

Actually, the "morals" in the bible are horrifying!  That's how we can be assured that almost no xian ever reads their own book.

 

A xian made the assertion on a blog that this country was "founded on xian principles and morals."  I asked him what morals he could possibly contribute to the bible that this country was founded on.  His reply was "Well, how about FREEDOM? DUH!"  Unfortunately for him, my next question stumped him.  I asked him to point out, in the bible, where freedom was considered a moral value.  Never heard back from him.  LOL

 

Luckily we have grown out of the few "moral values" that the bible teaches, such as the "ethical way to treat your slavery", and "women should never talk, except to ask their husbands about scripture in the home" or "let's kill a bunch of children for making fun of bold people" or  "if you fight your enemy, you should not only kill them, but all their animals as well."  Seriously?  Does god really think that your enemy would have trained the goats to rebel after they've been stolen?  Or "thou shalt not steal." Unless your jesus, of course, in which case you can just take anything you want and expect people to not only put up with it, but actually be happy that the "Lord Himself" just stole your property.  Oh ya, the bible shows great morals!

You seem to be getting a LOT of responses where the person "misinterpreted" your OP.  Maybe you should go back to your OP and re-read it with a fresh eye?  Maybe you will see why people think that you are calling all Atheists immoral?  Just a thought... 

 

Maybe if you examine this, it will help you communicate better in the future.  We all strive to become better at what we do, don't we?

An absurd and ridiculous assumption.  All the atheists I know are the most upstanding ethical and moral people I've ever met.  It actually seems to me that religious people have somewhat of a patent on immorality as long as it's based on their absurd beliefs.  If their invisible friend tells them it's OK then it's OK, by doG.

Atheists do not abandon moral and ethical principles, we just don't have some holy spook looking over our shoulder to keep us on our moral toes.

I’m still looking for someone to give me the positive aspects of the sex industry which benefit more than the person who is receiving sexual gratification from it.

 

Not to sound misogynistic but the sex industry and everything related to it is a billion dollar industry, so the "benefit" is to the economy.  I've often questioned the morality of pure American capitalism. I would venture to guess that is more harmful to morals than many things. If your ultimate goal is profit, then how you get there is not important. That is probably a discussion for another thread.

The fantasy that men entertain that a significant number of prostitutes "chose" their income out of their love of sex is alive and well I see... what a crock.

 

A vast majority of prostitutes do it as a desperate last resort.

Do not ruin my fantasy!  

 

But on a serious note , many porn stars look like they are really enjoying what they are doing.  Do you think that is different?  Do they also do it as a 'last resort' or are many of them women who just love to have sex on camera with well hung and muscular males while getting paid for it?  

 

 

uh... it's called acting...
That's debatable, though your underlying point still stands.

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Posted by Quincy Maxwell on July 20, 2014 at 9:37pm 17 Comments

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