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Permalink Reply by T A A on June 27, 2011 at 12:25pm

If that were so, if as many claim, morals were universal, there would be no variation in morals around the world and through history. Morals are different for everyone because individuals (in the name of god) have shaped morals. I would sincerely prefer we drop the use of the word "moral" all-together, and simply create sets of rules which are reasonable for each individual society. Humans have these obsessions with making rules (and morals) that cannot be lived by (or difficult to enforce) which is why humans are constantly cheating them. If we were more humble in our rule setting, more realist, there would be less rule cheating.

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Permalink Reply by Tanya Wells on June 27, 2011 at 1:06pm

The bible did not create morality...they just copied the information from other people.  Dont give them that much credit :)

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Permalink Reply by Keith Pinster on June 27, 2011 at 4:47pm

Actually, the "morals" in the bible are horrifying!  That's how we can be assured that almost no xian ever reads their own book.

 

A xian made the assertion on a blog that this country was "founded on xian principles and morals."  I asked him what morals he could possibly contribute to the bible that this country was founded on.  His reply was "Well, how about FREEDOM? DUH!"  Unfortunately for him, my next question stumped him.  I asked him to point out, in the bible, where freedom was considered a moral value.  Never heard back from him.  LOL

 

Luckily we have grown out of the few "moral values" that the bible teaches, such as the "ethical way to treat your slavery", and "women should never talk, except to ask their husbands about scripture in the home" or "let's kill a bunch of children for making fun of bold people" or  "if you fight your enemy, you should not only kill them, but all their animals as well."  Seriously?  Does god really think that your enemy would have trained the goats to rebel after they've been stolen?  Or "thou shalt not steal." Unless your jesus, of course, in which case you can just take anything you want and expect people to not only put up with it, but actually be happy that the "Lord Himself" just stole your property.  Oh ya, the bible shows great morals!

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Permalink Reply by Tanya Wells on June 27, 2011 at 12:06pm

No...Read the original statement again...I'm atheist and moral. I strongly believe that there is good without god, and the fact that there are good people out there is proof of that in itself.

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Permalink Reply by Keith Pinster on June 27, 2011 at 4:51pm

You seem to be getting a LOT of responses where the person "misinterpreted" your OP.  Maybe you should go back to your OP and re-read it with a fresh eye?  Maybe you will see why people think that you are calling all Atheists immoral?  Just a thought... 

 

Maybe if you examine this, it will help you communicate better in the future.  We all strive to become better at what we do, don't we?

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Permalink Reply by Ken Hughes on June 27, 2011 at 9:01am

An absurd and ridiculous assumption.  All the atheists I know are the most upstanding ethical and moral people I've ever met.  It actually seems to me that religious people have somewhat of a patent on immorality as long as it's based on their absurd beliefs.  If their invisible friend tells them it's OK then it's OK, by doG.

Atheists do not abandon moral and ethical principles, we just don't have some holy spook looking over our shoulder to keep us on our moral toes.

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Permalink Reply by Tanya Wells on June 27, 2011 at 12:16pm

I think religion people are rude, gullible, and believe that to segregate is ideal, but I also think that there are some atheists that are self-centered, ignorant, and rude as well.  The atheist population is a very diverse group that is not all good and moral just like any other group of people in the world.  There will always be a few bad apples.   I think a ridiculous statement would be one in which we stereo type a group as moral or all immoral simply because of the sector which we’ve interacted with personally.

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Permalink Reply by Tanya Wells on June 27, 2011 at 10:34am

Well here is some clarification on my statements, and I would rather tell you a little about me so that people will not assume that I’m a Christian troller (it was funny that someone assumed that, it made me laugh):

I’m not a Christian, and never have been because I thought it was a horrible thing to be part of group in which only a few would be lucky enough to go to “heaven” leaving their friends and family behind (Please keep in mind that I was six years old when I thought of this as my dad was a missionary), and that there is no way a god could exists for obvious reasons which I think you all are well aware of.

Then for most of my life I was simply an existentialist feeling as if life was this useless pointless thing which I would rather do without because at the end no matter what we do or accomplish in life we are simply making our way to our own graves.  I lived with a “what is the f!@#$ing use” mentality.

I have since realized life is not as bad as I thought it was, and now  I’m a godless idealist who strongly believes in the motto “all for one and one for all” who actually comprehends that world peace is technically obtainable if everyone would simply desire it enough to compromise some aspect of their lives in order to avoid unnecessary confrontations(which is more than likely never going to happen, but then we must say that it is not impossible to accomplish world peace but rather that we do not want to accomplish world peace). 

The first thing people think is that I’ve changed my beliefs around a lot and that I’m probably still searching for my identity.  If you think about how I changed you can clearly see that every step was an improvement on my thinking, which means that I don’t settle for simply a “cool” title of my idiosyncrasies, but that I strive to improve rather than settle.  I continue to question everything, and change when necessary.  I will not stay stagnant or go with the conventional flow of group I identify myself as.  I also do not have a problem with admitting when I am wrong when enough evidence has been shown to prove my fault.

Anyway, how I feel about freedom…I can pretty much sum it up by saying “if it does more harm than good, then we really do not need that freedom because our ultimate goal as a civilizations should be to strive for improvement in all aspects of life”.  For example the sex industry:

• causes a lot of people to end up getting divorced which ends up causing a chain reaction of emotional problems for more than just the two people involved.
• is psychologically damaging to many of the males and females involved.  One example... desensitizing sexual gratification http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201003/po...  (don’t just assume I don’t know what I’m talking about look it up for yourself),
•  Facilitates the spread of disease, increases the crime rate which in term increases the amount of funding needed for our justice system.  
• Etc.

I’m still looking for someone to give me the positive aspects of the sex industry which benefit more than the person who is receiving sexual gratification from it.

                That was one example, I do not have the time to sit here explaining my laundry list of beliefs and why I have acquired these beliefs.  The reason I posted the question was because I wanted to see how people who subscribe to a secular forum group would react to a broad statement such as that, without interjecting too much of my own opinions (most individuals who feel the need to go into “defense mode” can sometimes say things to build a defense rather than state how they truly feel when not in defense mode).  Next question would be why I wanted to see an honest reaction?  Because I want to know why the atheist who are self-centered or insubordinate act the way they do, and this forum give me a little insight into that question ( I’m very much aware that not all atheist are like this, but I want to hear from the ones that are).  I gather information, analyze all aspects without bias and develop my own conclusions for my own purposes…I guess you can break it down to… this was a way in which I can develop a more accurate schema of the atheist population.  I’m a problem solver, and I just wanted to know is what it boils down to.  Thanks for all the honest feedback…

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Permalink Reply by Robert Karp on June 27, 2011 at 10:45am

I’m still looking for someone to give me the positive aspects of the sex industry which benefit more than the person who is receiving sexual gratification from it.

 

Not to sound misogynistic but the sex industry and everything related to it is a billion dollar industry, so the "benefit" is to the economy.  I've often questioned the morality of pure American capitalism. I would venture to guess that is more harmful to morals than many things. If your ultimate goal is profit, then how you get there is not important. That is probably a discussion for another thread.

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Permalink Reply by Tanya Wells on June 27, 2011 at 12:23pm

 

That would be a very interesting thread...And i agree with your statement on capitalism as well. But profit at the expense of others (emotionally or physically) is the real issue. is it ok to legalize something simply because someone is profiting financially from it? Does it justify the negative consequences?

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Permalink Reply by T A A on July 3, 2011 at 12:14am

The fantasy that men entertain that a significant number of prostitutes "chose" their income out of their love of sex is alive and well I see... what a crock.

 

A vast majority of prostitutes do it as a desperate last resort.

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Permalink Reply by Dustin on July 3, 2011 at 12:23am

Do not ruin my fantasy!  

 

But on a serious note , many porn stars look like they are really enjoying what they are doing.  Do you think that is different?  Do they also do it as a 'last resort' or are many of them women who just love to have sex on camera with well hung and muscular males while getting paid for it?  

 

 

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