Below is the discussion that's been going on between Gary, John and myself. This is only 1 topic but it's been jumping around between several other topics that I've posted. The below one Gary posted under his account because of a post I did on my account. I figure he wanted to show all his friends how he could own me in a discussion about religious topics.
What's your opinion and any additional suggestions?
Gary:If the rise in water levels never happened then why are they finding ancient marine life fossils in Wyoming and Mongolia? Man was proven by scientists and archeaologists to have been around before the iceage occurred. Archeologists and scientists have stated that as the demise of the iceage happened, the melting caused massive flooding everywhere. This is what the Bible is referring to.......
Gary: Nice try again non-believers! LOL
Jeff :Actually if you do the math, you'd find out that it's impossible to have that much water on earth...but hey.....whatever story you want to trip by.
Jeff : I'll make it easy for you: http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/earthhowmuch.html
Gary But according to geologists and archeaologists and anthropologists the whole world was covered at one time by water. Water receded eventually to form land masses from which life forms (amphibians) came to be. These are evolutionist words remember? We learned this in school?
Gary: +Oh wait! In the Bible that is referred to in Genesis 8:3.
Jeff: Again.....there's not enough water to flood the Earth but as you know.....we have floods in areas all the time. Guess he should have just told Noah to take a couple Ox and a wagon and go a hundred miles left or right and he would of been safe but instead .........ship buildin' time. We won't even get into the animal part of that story..I'd laugh too hard to hold a discussion about it.
Gary:How many times do I have to tell you......DON'T TAKE THE BIBLE VERBATUM, JEFF! It is a group of stories that are there to teach you something. Many are written down from lore but the basis is all the same no matter how far the truth might... be stretched and embellished. Evolution has done nothing to disprove the Bible but only in timeline but overall it has strengthened it. Seriously like I stated before..... How did they know to write of a great flood with no scientific proof? But then you can ask youself exactly what was the flood? was it worldwide or regional? There is so much evidence that water did cover the earths surface at one time. Is this not what the Bible states?
Jeff : Oh wait.....first you tell me don't take the bible verbatum.....then in the same post you "is this not what the bible states?" LOL Actually Evolution has done much more....DNA shows the tree of life for all living creatures...
John:The biblical story of Noah is a great testimony to the faith of the ancient Israelites, and it probably relates to some great flood that occurred prior to the written word, but I have to side with Jeff in regard the science. Fossils that a...re located high in the mountains (or under the Loess Hills) were formed undersea but thrust upward by forces under the Earth's crust. So, where did the Great Flood actually occur? I'm inclined to agree with those who think it was the floor of what's now the Black Sea. http://www.nationalgeographic.com/blacksea/ax/frame.html The timing is right, the geography is right, and the circumstances are convincing.
Gary: You are digging Jeff, you know what I meant! LOL I am not arguing the evolutionary tree of life, What I am saying is that the Bible explains this also.....therefore Creationism and Evolution can co-exist.
Gary: I am in agreement with you John. It is either there or in the Arabian Sea area. They have found evidence from Satillite imaging of the sea actually having been twice the size it was and just shy of the city of Basra on it's northeren boundry.
Jeff : actually the bible doesn't Gary, Adam and Eve is where the bible states as the starting point. So far a 160,000 year old skull from a human has been found in Africa, so that's about 154,000 years older than when life was poofed into the garden. ;-)
John : Agreed, but I'm not a biblical literalist and once again the story is a great statement of faith that contains a grain of truth--a time when all of humankind relates back to a very small group of individuals sharing common ancestry.
Gary : Most agreed John. Well said
Gary : And the first cities/civilizations were located in what is now modern day Iraq, somewhere between Baghad and Basra along the Eurphrates and Tigris rivers, Jeff. So what is your point?
Jeff : Point being the oldest known human has been found in Africa NOT the middle east. Let me guess.......the middle east back then was located in today's Africa.....you just have to have faith to understand the reasoning behind the old location.
Gary: Excuse me, they found one older in China now. Read the newspaper!
Jeff : Here's a 160,000 yr old one....what's the chile one? 145,000 ? http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1295624
Jeff: Here Gary this will explain DNA and where we came from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeQk5l0OHTg&feature=share
Jeff : Does this sound like anyone you know?
1. a. a ruler who is not effectively restricted by a constitution, laws, recognized opposition, etc
b. an absolute, esp tyrannical, ruler
Jeff : Oops, I did some searching and there's even an older human 195,000 years old from Kenya. Again, from Africa.
Jeff : here's the info: http://www.nhm.ac.uk/about-us/news/2005/feb/news_3639.html
Should have mentioned that you can find marine fossils on mountains because of plate tectonics and geological forces. It's the land that has risen. Not the water that has gone down.
But then, these people are very far gone. Gary a lot more so than John though. John at least seems to acknowledge that the flood (if it's really the same one) was a localized event at best.
Yeah, John doesn't go that far out on a limb with made up stuff like Gary does. Gary tried to tell me that the bible didn't say anything about Noah being in the Ark for 150 days. Of course I had to tell him to read Genesis 7:24 Oops......guess Gary missed that part when he was reading the bible.
I've notice that when they get put into a corner....faith comes leaping out of them for an answer because they can't find an answer to the problem that I questioned them about.
I don't know much about geology, so I can't comment on that. I like that you site your sources, don't like that Gary and John don't. This statement tells a lot about Gary:
"Gary:How many times do I have to tell you......DON'T TAKE THE BIBLE VERBATUM, JEFF! It is a group of stories that are there to teach you something. Many are written down from lore but the basis is all the same no matter how far the truth might... be stretched and embellished."
If the bible is just a group of stories then why should we believe any of them? Why should I believe in Noah's flood or the resurrection. It seems that he thinks that the bible meant for personal interpretation, but according to 2 Peter 1:20, "knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation," it's not. Either accept the bible for what it says or don't. Besides, what makes his interpretation better?
Gary just wants to play dumb is all. It's rather sad. At least he should study science before going blind with faith.
Alex, he just used the verbatim statement to get out of answering the question, he does that alot. Hopefully he'll site some sources but then again maybe he won't because I'll shoot right back at him to prove him wrong again.
I wasn't even really into science when I became an Atheist, I just read the bible and that was enough for me. You'd have to be brain-dead not to see the BS in that book.
Yeah I'm reading it right now and I'm already tired of all the BS.
When someone makes a statement I don't understand or know the reasoning behind, I always get them to clarify it before moving on. In that way I never let people make a statement to just get out of answering a question. I guess I'm nit-picky that way.
Well I guess Gary gave up the discussion, since I haven't heard any response from him since my last post with the link. But I'm sure he'll pipe in on something in the future again and attempt to make an Atheist look bad. I think the next time he pipes up and request source links for anything he states since he never does that.
Gary's back at it again:
Oh boy. One could write books just about the evolution of a single species. Let alone all of life.
Refer him to some websites or books. It's really pointless to waste time explaining things to him. He is just a troll