Catholics teach that the fear of god is a gift from the holy spirit.

Fear = Wisdom? Really?

I used to fear GOD. It was real to me and a constant source of stress. Perhaps when atheists speak of new found freedom, some of it is really the shedding of fear. Did you ever "FEAR the LORD? and if so, how did it feel to ditch that fear?

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Your Church has been a source of human unhappiness and misery for centuries. Whether or not "God" exists doesn't even have any bearing  on the effects of mind control, guilt, fear, and hypocritical behaviour dictated by the "chaste" sexual perverts calling themselves Priests and Nuns, Bishops and Cardinals, and Popes, as they control people's behavior by capitalizing on the natural fear of death.

And yes your "church" was all about the "ass-raping" from the very beginnings with the homosexual, pedophilic, mysogynist "Paul" duping an ignorant population of peasants with his con-man bullshit and setting up the organization of psychopaths, of which you are one.  And you are not the most deceptive psycopath I've seen, but you try hard.

If you do not defend it, I say FUCK YOU  anyway because you're a prick, obviously.

LOL.  Like I said, relatively boorish and sophomoric, where it isn't just prejudiced nonsense.

In this case the lie was claiming we atheists are your intellectual inferiors and you refuse to debate us because our arguments bore you to tears.

Arguments like the one above that ended in "Fuck You?"  Who wouldn't be bored to tears?   Seriously! 

All I did, @Gallup, was deny your own claim of intellectual superiority: "Atheists overwhelmingly test your faith on an intellectual level."   Just look at all the chest-beating I generated by reflecting your own approach back at you for a brief moment.

Too easy. 

Arguments like the one above that ended in "Fuck You?"  Who wouldn't be bored to tears?   Seriously! 

No, silly. I mean the arguments where you suddenly skulk away without responding anymore. The ones where you make dishonest and untrue statements, which I falsify by posting links to reputable sources; statistics, government reports, legislation, surveys, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and so on. Those arguments, Robert.

Arguments like this one. Or this one. And this one. And this one. And this one too. And substantively this one. This huge one. Or this one. And this one. The list goes on.

And those are just mine. Other regulars have theirs.

You get your clock cleaned time and again, Bob. But rather than admit that you're wrong, or apologize for twisting the truth to save your thundering ego, out pops another lie: It's not that I'm lacking honesty or courage! I take off because you bore me!

Congratulations anyway, Bob. After leaping away from the list of arguments above, at long last you can pounce on FUCK YOU as the argument you can finally win.

But regrettably, it's not one of mine.

All I did, @Gallup, was deny your own claim of intellectual superiority: "Atheists overwhelmingly test your faith on an intellectual level."  

All you did was lie again, Pinocchio. Let's look at that conversation in context:

Your words: "I am perfectly comfortable with atheism intellectually and personally, and am happy to be supportive of atheists. I also am quite comfortable in my own faith; there's really little here that would "test" it..."

My response: "Atheists overwhelmingly test your faith on an intellectual level. You either cheat on those tests or refuse to take them. That's all you ever do here."  

To recap, YOU opened with a claim of self-superiority directed at ALL ATHEISTS here, saying there is little here (implying little intellectually) to test your faith.

I responded to deny YOUR statement and directed my words at YOU alone.

What I said was true too. You often cheat (by lying like you are now) or refuse to respond (per the list above). Those are the actions of a mind overwhelmed: a mind left with no honest response, so it responds with dishonesty or not at all. That's you, Bob.

Just look at all the chest-beating I generated by reflecting your own approach back at you for a brief moment.

It wasn't my approach. It was yours. Lie, throw it, and hope it sticks. Anything generated as a result, including my responses, is on YOU.

Too easy.

Bob, I swear. I've busted a gut laughing at those last two words. What's easier for you than lying and chickening out?

It's like you've walked into the forum with a giant pile of steaming shit in each hand. Then, before a stunned TA community, you stuff the shit into your mouth and smear it all over your face, head, neck, and shoulders. Then put your hands on your hips, throw your head back, and proclaim triumphantly, "Too easy!"

Again with the constant ad hominem?  Don't you tire of it?

To go through your list:

No, your understanding of papal infallibility is wrong. Explanation in that thread.

For a good example of a religious commentary on economics, try picking up the U.S. Bishop's Letter on the Economy.  Remarkably prescient.

Yes, we have a metaphorical or theoretical notion of hell, without either a definitive or dogmatic understanding of what that actually means.  Call it lots of competing theories.

Hmmm.  You listed that one twice. 

What you seem to be unable to grok is that we are not fundamentalists.  Not about the Bible, and certainly not about the Catechism, and not even about the documents of the various councils.   Quoting isolated snippets without an understanding of the language or the culture demonstrates your ignorance of our faith and practice, not understanding.  Again, sophomoric.  It's the rough equivalent of a freshman physics student telling me I'm wrong about physics and he can prove it by quoting one line out of the textbook I wrote.

Much as I might wish to continue your edification, you clearly have more time on your hands than I do.  I don't mean to be running away and sulking, I just have other commitments to attend to.   So what I would suggest is that you go take a class.  Find a nearby Catholic college or university and take a few basic theology courses.  Even better, start with a rabbinical class on the Torah, because in many ways Catholic intellectual thought comes from Judaism.  Then you might be able to make a reasonable argument with reference to the proper texts and what we truly teach.

Again with the constant ad hominem?  Don't you tire of it?

We've covered this before, Robert. If your statement is a lie and I call you on it, that is not fallacious.

To go through your list:

Respond in the threads, in context.

Hmmm.  You listed that one twice. 
Error of haste, Bob.

What you seem to be unable to grok is that we are not fundamentalists. Not about the Bible, and certainly not about the Catechism, and not even about the documents of the various councils. Quoting isolated snippets without an understanding of the language or the culture demonstrates your ignorance of our faith and practice, not understanding.  Again, sophomoric. 

Again, dishonest. I responded to what YOU actually said in those threads. Now YOU respond to what I ACTUALLY SAID in response to your words, IN THE THREADS, Bob, IN CONTEXT.

It's the rough equivalent of a freshman physics student telling me I'm wrong about physics and he can prove it by quoting one line out of the textbook I wrote.

It's the exact equivalent of you losing yet another argument and getting caught in another lie; chickening out rather than owning up, denying challenges rather than rising to meet them.

Much as I might wish to continue your edification, you clearly have more time on your hands than I do. I don't mean to be running away and sulking, I just have other commitments to attend to.

Gosh, Bob. You you didn't have time to answer the previously unanswered threads while simultaneously having time to answer this one and post in others? Must be some kind of temporal paradox.

So what I would suggest is that you go take a class.  Find a nearby Catholic college or university and take a few basic theology courses. 

Theology is not a subject, Bob. Neither is the study of leprechauns or unicorns or fairy wings.

Even better, start with a rabbinical class on the Torah, because in many ways Catholic intellectual thought comes from Judaism.  Then you might be able to make a reasonable argument with reference to the proper texts and what we truly teach.

According to you, the Catechism of the Catholic Church is not the proper text, and not what the Catholic Church truly teaches, and I need the Catholic education.

And I here thought "Too easy!" was the gut-buster of the night!

But trying to infer that Catholicism and its kindred religions are beneficial and true, to me is like trying to indicate that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

LOL!!!

It's just Bob, @Gallup.  Robert is way too formal.

It's a bit too easy to lose the namesake in the forest of these threads. Robert you chose, so Robert you are. At least at first.

I'm sorry to report, however, that atheists are relatively underwhelming on an intellectual level, in my own experience. The arguments I tend to find dull and sophomoric, when they aren't just arguing against a fictional version of religion of their own making.

Indeed, the "argument" is a classic.

You: God exists!
Me: A claim. Evidence, please.
You: There is none.
Me: I can't take your claims seriously.

The rest is you either avoiding this "argument" or resorting to some form of intellectual dishonesty (such as lying about having evidence, shifting the burden of proof onto me, etc).

For me there is no challenge, no argument to make, no evidence to present. That's all on you. My job is a routine and banal flea-flick dismantling of whatever crock of bull you serve. I've heard 'em all from your camp.

Your standard schtick on these boards involves both of the aforementioned moves: back away and cover yourself with a lie. In this case the lie was claiming we atheists are your intellectual inferiors and you refuse to debate us because our arguments bore you to tears.

I've heard that one before too, Robert. You'e SOOO smart and we're SOOO dumb that you refuse to engage us or answer simple questions, sometimes quite suddenly, right in the middle of a conversation. Your brilliance is dazzling.

"I searched TA and found no examples of anyone referring to you as an ass-raper, Robert." -Gallop

Whatsoever you do to the least of my brethren...

Jebus said that, didn't he? You're not Jebus, Robert.

I believe you'll find a number of comments to the effect that my church, which according to our theology is not a building or an organization but a community of people, are all about the ass-raping.

I found a number of comments to the effect that you were defending "ass-rapers". You were defending child rapists and the men who covered for them, and lying repeatedly to do it. That was part of the reaction you got.

I didn't find any that called YOU an ass-raper, which is what your original statement implied: "Being referred to as an 'ass-raper' I find amusingly juvenile."

Step up and be honest. 

You have an awful lot of catching up to do where honesty is concerned, Robert. You've told lie after lie after lie on these boards, including this one that literally encompasses the entire world-- a mortal sin-- and when our jaws dropped open you just walked away from it. (Got bored, huh Bob?)

There are all kinds of relatively mean-spirited and biased things posted here about theists of various sorts every day.

You poor, poor, persecuted man. The world is FULL of people-- billions of theists like you-- who say and do hateful things to atheists every day. You can go ANYWHERE you want on virtually any web site or in any public place and say whatever you please as a Catholic and as a Christian. Virtually every high ranking government official at a state and federal level is a theist or pretending to be one. They print IN GOD WE TRUST on our money. They slip creationism into high school biology classrooms. Parents kill kids for God's sake and walk away free. South Carolina just tried to make Christianity the official state religion. It goes on and on, endlessly, everywhere, every day of our lives.

And you're in here bitching about "relatively mean-spirited and biased things" some of us say about the people who do these things. Like you're the victim here? 

Boo fucking hoo.

No, those individuals aren't imaginary.  However, the ascribing [of hatred and mistrust of atheists] to whole groups of people is entirely imaginary, and unjust.  As is most of the understanding of religion or theology described here.

As usual Bob, you don't know what you're talking about, but you're still talking.

Every single study that has ever examined the issue has found atheists are the most hated and mistrusted minority in America.

Who is doing all that hating and mistrusting of atheists, Bob? I'll give you a hint: it's not other atheists. We are not being unjust. We are not imagining it. It is absolutely real.

On the understanding of religion, atheists ranked highest in the 2010 Pew Research Center survey on religious knowledge in the US. To see how they fared against Catholics see the chart below.

You can have theology, a non-subject. There is no data. One can no more study the nature of God than the nature of leprechauns.

And that, my friends, is the kitchen sink.  Thank you, Gallup, :D

As someone who has been touched by the Professor's infinite wisdom and clarity of logic, I have in recent times found myself as somewhat of an apprentice of his.

His graceful sidestepping of questions he is unable to answer in any meaningful way; much like my Wood Elf Rogue character in my D&D campaign gracefully dances around enemy sword swings, the Professor dances around what he will answer and what is just "Yawn" (in translation: what he really doesn't know how to answer, even with his bumper sticker logic he normally gives).

I have been so mesmerized by his replies that I feel obligated to step in on his behalf in the extreme cases like this one.

So, Professor, my mentor, if I may one again cut in and take this dance for you.

I think it goes something like this...

@Gallup: Yawn, those people surveyed are not "true Catholics". A true Catholic does not need to study the bible, the bible studies him... Or some shit like that.

Or, if we may, and only with your permission, Professor, take it up a notch..

I know you are, but what am I?

Such insight into the human soul... You continue to inspire me Professor.

And unlike Gallup, I cannot bring myself to call you anything less than THE Professor; I would not dare do disservice to your position, after all, the mark you are making on Think Atheist is a wonderful example of the state of the American education system.

You're a smug little prick, aren't you Robert.

" Fear of our spouse is why we guys make a point of remembering our anniversaries ;-)"

Goodness, I'm glad I'm not your wife. 

The desire to celebrate our love and have a great evening of entertainment together is why my husband remembers our anniversary. 

...and because it's on my birthday. 

But seriously. Really? 

Fear? 

You're doing it wrong. 

Even an aversion to offend isn't a good excuse. Sometimes people need to be offended. Just because he's married to me doesn't give him special privileges! 

No one is above skeptical inquiry. No one is above thoughtful question and honest dialogue. 

...whether it's offensive or not. 

I call bullshit.  You lie like Muslims do.

Even when I was 'catholic', I never 'feared the l-rd'. I felt more fear dealing with crazy people, drunks, cult members, the political/religion  obsessed, people with guns, and ignorance. I think ignorance kills more than guns, and the obsessed mind damages lives. 

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