The atheist response to the text of the Bible is based primarily upon the young earth creationist interpretation, which is flawed. If I put myself objectively in the position of the atheist attempting to debunk the Bible I would start with Genesis Chapter 1. The Chapter passed the inspection of this former atheist.

The Hebrew verb consists of two different states. The perfect state indicates an action which is complete, whereas the imperfect state indicates a continuous or incomplete action.

At Genesis 1:1 the word bara, translated as created, is in the perfect state, which means that at this point the creation of the heavens and the Earth were completed. Later, as in verse 16 the Hebrew word asah, translated as made, is used, which is in the imperfect state, indicating continuous action. The heavens and Earth were created in verse 1 and an indeterminate time later they were being prepared for habitation, much the same as a bed is manufactured (complete) and made (continuous) afterwards.

What this means is that the creation was complete even before the six "days" of creation even began, in fact, later verses in the chapter reveal it was more than likely a long time in between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

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Oh good, you've read "Hitchhiker" - you can't be ALL bad --

My 9th grade science teacher sent a note home to my parents which I get a kick out of to this day. He told them "David reads a lot of books, just not the right ones." That's a quote.

I read the Hitchhiker's Guide "trilogy" I don't know how many times through Jr. and High school. The only thing better to me (on a secular note, of course) is Frank Herbert's Dune series, which I also read repeatedly when I was supposed to be learning other stuff.

I don't know how I ever managed to get through school without ever having failed, because, honestly, I didn't give a rodent's rectum.

4 words into this examination and we have our conclusion. We've settled it.

Exactly. As I said previously, your atheist "challenge" is stillborn. 

 

Not necessarily - I don't want to be hard-nosed about it - all David has to do is provide tangible, verifiable evidence that this fourth word, "God," exists, and that done, we can move straight on to word 5 and beyond! Hell, I'll ride all the way to Revelations with him, I wasn't doing anything anyway, and who doesn't like a roadtrip?

Wait, wait!  Books prove reality?  Are we saying Gollum is real?

As far as I think David is trying to go, he is suggesting we suspend our disbelief in the god of the bible, so as to study the historical accuracies which are in it. but have not been translated efficiently. 

The point in question, David, is not really how the bible has recorded history (which in itself is unverified in this thread) but how there is any connection between the book and a divine being.  If you have to suspend your non-belief in the deity, you are pretty much going to have to pick and choose where belief is required and where it isn't.

Many humans can achieve this mix and match of belief, but this is because they actively want a deity to exist, not because they want to know what the truth is.

Those people who seek truth for its own sake, do not approach matters with a sporadic belief system.  Truth is more effectively sought when disbelief is the starting point.  Evidence is thus tested, and if it becomes impossible to contradict it, it is then parked under the term 'theory' so that it is provisionally accepted as truth, yet still permits challenges in the future, when more and better methods to test the evidence become available.

Imagine we were discussing Lord of the Rings.  We would not be considering it as fact, even though it contained horses and humans, just like the real world.  It is the connection between the Abrahamic bible and the supernatural that is where the burden of proof lies.  Without this connection, the words "In the beginning, God created..." have no foundation in reality.

Not necessarily - I don't want to be hard-nosed about it - all David has to do is provide tangible, verifiable evidence that this fourth word, "God," exists, and that done, we can move straight on to word 5 and beyond! Hell, I'll ride all the way to Revelations with him, I wasn't doing anything anyway, and who doesn't like a roadtrip?

Don't be obtuse! Just when I was starting to think you were a surprisingly interesting challenge you had to go and say that. 

God isn't at issue. I can show you lots of Gods. You missed the point and need to be more specific. The issue is the Creator or specifically, Jehovah.

God isn't at issue. I can show you lots of Gods.

Well, finally. Show me the evidence that God exists. Show me the evidence that lots of gods exist. 

(You're not about to do the 'This shit is God' thing again are you?)

The issue is the Creator or specifically, Jehovah.

Okay. Show me the evidence that Jehovah exists.

Dave,

Do you realize you have not settled the god issue. just give the evidence that this particular god exists and we will go with you all the way.

Now either man up and say, guys, for that me have no evidence but I'd like you guys to help me with some misconceptions I have.

You said you want to debunk YEC, tell me Dave, have you met one here? Unless you are looking for material to use to do that, I think you really are confused to the core. 

You keep avoiding the central issue, shifting goalposts as my former president used to say of donors, which is does this god you purport to speak for exist? Are you going to give an answer or not, that is the question everything else like Hebrew, Greek are all side issues.

Then all you have to do, David - and who's being obtuse now? - is substitute Jehovah (which of course is a misnomer) or any other god of your choice, whom you believe "created the heaven and the earth," provide tangible, verifiable evidence of his/her/it's existence, and we're good to go --

Exactly. As I said previously, your atheist "challenge" is stillborn.

Yes. I got that, Archy.

I wrote that, not Archy. 

Tattletale!

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