The atheist response to the text of the Bible is based primarily upon the young earth creationist interpretation, which is flawed. If I put myself objectively in the position of the atheist attempting to debunk the Bible I would start with Genesis Chapter 1. The Chapter passed the inspection of this former atheist.
The Hebrew verb consists of two different states. The perfect state indicates an action which is complete, whereas the imperfect state indicates a continuous or incomplete action.
At Genesis 1:1 the word bara, translated as created, is in the perfect state, which means that at this point the creation of the heavens and the Earth were completed. Later, as in verse 16 the Hebrew word asah, translated as made, is used, which is in the imperfect state, indicating continuous action. The heavens and Earth were created in verse 1 and an indeterminate time later they were being prepared for habitation, much the same as a bed is manufactured (complete) and made (continuous) afterwards.
What this means is that the creation was complete even before the six "days" of creation even began, in fact, later verses in the chapter reveal it was more than likely a long time in between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.
Yo David - RE: "Since to the writers of the Bible a god was anyone or anything that was considered mighty or venerated" - show me where it says that.
Or is it only YOU saying that, to make things fit your paradigm?
New posts go to my email box, making new ones easy to find since there's also a direct link to the post. Change your settings.
Unfortunately the email I get only comes in once a day, and it will (say) give your name, say you posted six times, and offer to take you to Unseen's last post in the thread.
Ideally there's be a way to click on an icon, and have it take you to the first post you haven't read yet, in context... then clicking it again, takes you to the next... etc. Or even just highlighting the page links for pages that have new content.
You can set your email preferences to receive notifications in real time.
Yikes that would bury me. But it's good to know it's there.
That's how I get mine.
David, maybe it would be better to blog about your thoughts on god rather than setting up an "atheist challenge" in a discussion forum.
I'd like to use the word "calculating" in accordance to what you are doing here and your last discussion as well. "calculating" in the same sense that I would use in accordance to some large corporations. Perhaps these corporations haven't broken the law, done anything "wrong" or are even inherently evil but they planned for an outcome and that outcome depends upon a particular set up.
I do sleight of hand tricks. These tricks are just that -tricks. They are calculating and they depend heavily on the set up. These are for fun. The only fun on this discussion that there has been was at your expense. Then you go on to explain that you are the resident "scapegoat". If you bring it all on yourself then that is not a scapegoat. I'd rather say it's a bit masochistic of you.
So rather than all the song and dance why don't you blog. This would eliminate all of the "guess what I'm holding behind my back." "wrong" and "wrong" and "wrong but keep guessing" bit.
I think it's called e-martyrdom, Jared :) It's a bit wussy because you get to walk away afterwards
Virtual martyrdom. Once you find that you have become a human pincushion from all the arrows sticking out of you, you take the virtual reality goggles off, and shut power off to your X-box-like system.
Sounds like all you managed to do was prove that whoever wrote Gensis was lousy at Hebraic grammar...
After having read through the entirety of this discussion, I find your post to be interesting, but altogether inconsequential. All you are doing is arguing semantics, and that's going to be a problem for you to convince anyone. The only people who actually care about semantic arguments are lawyers. To most of us here, is doesn't matter that a particular translation of a language from 2500-3000 years ago gives some leeway to a different interpretation of a myth. It's still just a myth.
We care far more about evidence, and the evidence is (as Arch has pointed out in numerous places) that these are all just stories written by different people at different times and assembled as we know it know by other men who came afterwards. Moses, who you say wrote Genesis, is considered by the academic community to never have existed. The enslavement of the Jews by the Egyptians never occurred. Modern archeology has found that this is true.
Gallup said that a great many of the sciences when viewed as a whole prove that the Bible is nothing more than a work of fiction. They do more than that. They explain how the whole history of religious thought is nothing more than superstition.