This is a very interesting dichotomy proposed by our friend Professor Dawkins and brings to mind the whole, lesser of two evils argument. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

 

This post is from the discussion section of the Richard Dawkins Foundations for Reason and Science's discussion section. The link to the site is here.

Support Christian missions in Africa? No, but . . .

Given that Islam is such an unmitigated evil, and looking at the map supplied by this Christian site, should we be supporting Christian missions in Africa? My answer is still no, but I thought it was worth raising the question. Given that atheism hasn't any chance in Africa for the foreseeable future, could our enemy's enemy be our friend?

Richard

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I think the cultural perspective might be a bit off. Radical Christians outside of Africa have calmed down a lot. But in Africa itself you have such nice characters as the Lords Resistance Army and the rape crisis in the highly Christian Congo. It is also where the Catholic church is "expanding it's market" the quickest, and it's not just the too cuddly catholics from here back home, they also do things like witchdoctors and they are causing an HIV epidemic.

By comparison, North African muslims are very close to Europe and that's where a lot of them aspire to live. Instead of just these two waves of insanity crashing together, imagine a secular (and also protestant) wave catching up quickly from southern Africa and anotherone from Europe.

If so, the first evidence of this from the south would be Botswana, where religion and tribalism is losing out its stranglehold quite rapidly. From the north I would claim the current Arab spring to be evidence. It seems shorter from the north, so I guess I would disagree with Dawkins and root for Islam (!)

As far as I can decipher, at least Chistians don't promote killing people that do not believe. I know that the average Muslim does not promote this either, but the problem is the Muslim leadership lives in fear for their lives and their families' lives for speaking out against radical Islam.

 

Where are those compassionate 'moderate muslims' who should condemn the deaths of cartoonists? Those good honest taxpaying Muslims; doctors, laywers, architects etc . . . who should condemn the deaths of innoncent's over the burning of a book. Who should condemn the death threats of fanatical loons when their religion of peace is soundly criticised. Where are they? I've looked for them. They don't seem to exist.

 

Islam is literally stuck in the Iron age. It hasn't caught up with modernity to the extent that Christianity has - now that's not to say Christianity is perfect, far from it. I see a war of ideas between Islam and the west. A clash of civilizations.

 

This is a very touchy one. You can understand Dawkins modus operandi here. Support the lesser of two evils maybe. But what happens when the lesser evil turns around and bites you in the ass? Could you ever live that down?

If it weren't for the fact that in the US military these two wars are presented as Christian vs Islam I could agree with your opening statement. We the Christian Nation" have exacted 100s times more death on Iraq and Afghanistan populations than any terrorists have here in the US.Here is an article you may find interesting:

http://mythandhope.blogspot.com/2009/01/christianity-forced-on-mili...

 

I agree completely with your last paragraph.

We the Christian Nation" have exacted 100s times more death on Iraq and Afghanistan populations than any terrorists have here in the US.Here is an article you may find interesting:

 

True. I would be more concerned with the backwards mentality of Islam. The death cult mentality. Death to apostates and all of that.  Also, I would hazard a guess that Islam is more scientifically illiterate than Christianity.

The only country that scores lower than the U.S. on acceptance of evolution is Turkey. Just an interesting tidbit.
Derek, I would agree Islam is backwards and less scientifically illiterate, not always the case in history. My point is the Christian nation has exacted much more death while coveting the oil in those countries.
This is a good point Jim. Bush evoked god more times then I can count when justifying his reasons for the wars.

Where are they? I've looked for them. They don't seem to exist.

I've met quiet a few of them & one is a close friend.

The fact is that most normal people won't go out of their way to condemn lunatics, specially lunatics who might just kill you if you disagree with them. And when you live in a place infested with such lunatics, then you don't even think about doing something about it.

 

I've met quiet a few of them & one is a close friend.

The fact is that most normal people won't go out of their way to condemn lunatics, specially lunatics who might just kill you if you disagree with them. And when you live in a place infested with such lunatics, then you don't even think about doing something about it.

 

Granted but there is not enough of them. They have been shamefully silent on the issue. What about showing some courage for a change?

Is it so hard to release a simple statement saying " we condemn the actions of yada yada etc". You don't need to put your life in danger. 

Now I don't know about the U.S but at least in Europe (the UK) it seems to me that moderate Muslims are not making a conscious effort to oppose the nutbags.

Is anyone even reaching out to them? I mean in the U.S. they are met with great hostility by the Jesus fundies, profiled as terrorists by the government, and yet they should take risks of alienating a portion of their own religious community as well?

Being courageous can lead to disaster, not only for you but for you family in many places.

The case of a young pakistani girl was in the news recently. Her village council ordered her to be gang raped because, her younger brother, allegedly, had an illicit relationship with a woman. How do you gather the courage to speak up when it could lead to brutal consequences for you & your family.

Being courageous can lead to disaster, not only for you but for you family in many places.

 

So that's it then is it? Let's do nothing out of fear of death and pain? No, I would rather die fighting for my ideas than to roll over in fear and cowardice to these bullies.

 

The case you mention of the young girl who was gang raped: there are thousands upon thousands of those cases. Again, why live in fear of these theocratic loons?

If those 'moderate muslims'  were only more vocal and vociferous in their condemnnation of lunacy and violence, then maybe, just maybe it would make things better.

 

Then again I am agnostic when it comes to believing in moderate Islam.  Hey, maybe I'm a rascist bigot? That must be it.

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