Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Derek on May 11, 2011 at 2:21pm

Hi Heather

 

earlier you said:

 

Is anyone even reaching out to them? I mean in the U.S. they are met with great hostility by the Jesus fundies, profiled as terrorists by the government, and yet they should take risks of alienating a portion of their own religious community as well?

 

The problem is that multiculturalism has failed, at least here in Britian.  Quite a lot of these Islamic community centres, mosques etc have been found to be breeding grounds for hatred and intolerance. The thing is the moderates need to grow a pair, because enough is enough.

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Permalink Reply by Arcus on May 11, 2011 at 2:27pm

Only Churches should be able "to be breeding grounds for hatred and intolerance." ;)

A bit more serious, I think multiculturalism has helped in one thing, and that is to increase secularism as a counterwave to religious extremism. Compare it to a "few bad apples" vs "a rotten load" approach to the issue.

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Permalink Reply by Heather Spoonheim on May 11, 2011 at 3:36pm

So the moderates need to get a bit more radical?

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Permalink Reply by Arcus on May 11, 2011 at 3:55pm

The danger therein is their innate fear of others combined with a sensationalized threat from others, causing racism go through the roof.

It's a very delicate balance. There's not much data, just some slipped arguments from various public servants. I don't think hearing "yesterday we diffused a big bomb on the bus" would be reassuring and promote multiculturalism either. "Government of Some Country advises caution around muslims" type print is usually what we see in our papers.

While mostly just a few bad apples, Islam has perhaps some of the worst of the bad.

 

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Permalink Reply by Heather Spoonheim on May 11, 2011 at 4:22pm

I suppose bad apples are one thing but explosive apples are in an entirely different league.

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Permalink Reply by Arcus on May 12, 2011 at 12:57pm

Things that go "pop" in the night.. Negative unpredictability creates fear.

I let this fear heighten my level of awareness of crazy people in general. They are in every group, not just amongst muslims. But I don't go bat shit crazy over this awareness either.

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Permalink Reply by Derek on May 11, 2011 at 2:48pm

Yes, all cowards. But not as cowardly as those dreadfully silent 'moderate muslims', who stay quiet explicitly out of fear. We can all crtiticise our co-workers without fear of death can't we?

We can even criticise Christianity too, without thinking about geting beheaded. But now when it comes to Islam, it gets a bit touchy doesn't it. We wouldn't want to rock the boat there, let's leave them out of it,  god forbid we are labelled as rascist bigots.

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Permalink Reply by Heather Spoonheim on May 11, 2011 at 3:48pm

Ok, so I assume that each Sunday you head off to the nearest church, a community you can blend into well, and after the service you mingle with the crowd and talk about how all the anti-gay stuff just seems so wrong, and how people should be voting for their economic interests rather by faith based value sets.  You do this every week? Tirelessly?  Because this is the sort of thing that you are asking of moderate Muslims, and then calling them cowards for not doing so?  Are you a coward too, by that analogy?

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Permalink Reply by Arcus on May 11, 2011 at 4:02pm

The problem is the alignment with the seedy elements to the far right. I can't demonstrate when there's a definate possibility that someone in the crowd has committed a violent crime only over religion.

Which actually makes the real problem: not all muslims share that feeling...

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Permalink Reply by Heather Spoonheim on May 11, 2011 at 4:24pm

So are you suggesting we torture them all?

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Permalink Reply by Arcus on May 11, 2011 at 4:29pm

I just did a quote check on myself and my conclusion is no. The first one to suggest that was you.

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Permalink Reply by Heather Spoonheim on May 11, 2011 at 4:48pm

And that suggestion is located where?

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