Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Doug Reardon on September 16, 2012 at 10:45pm

Many cons get Christianity so they can become rich televangelists.  

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Permalink Reply by wyocowboy50 on September 16, 2012 at 10:52pm

and to get out of prison on "good behavior"

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Permalink Reply by wyocowboy50 on September 16, 2012 at 10:53pm

 a good question but i am not sure

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Permalink Reply by Ed on September 17, 2012 at 8:30am

As someone who worked as a corrections officer in the past I can say that a large majority of those who attended services inside prison walls did so more as a means to exchange inmate information and/or paraphernalia. Bibles are handy storage devices. 

The inmates eventually got the female Wiccans into some real hot water with the prison authorities. Being naive and gullible is not advised when dealing with cons.

"Do you think it is harder for someone with criminal history to get accepted in an atheist community or a Christian community?"

I don't think it would make a difference. If I was aware of their criminal past I might be a little more suspicious of their sincerity for a period of time. Unfortunately there are a lot of 'bad habits' one can pick up while living in a den of thieves.

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Permalink Reply by Richard E. Robertson on September 18, 2012 at 3:17am

Been around the criminal element myself. I know of what you speak. And interestingly enough there aren't that many atheists in prison. Most of those who wind up there tend to have problems with critical thinking that tend to put them their in the first place and tend to make them susceptible to superstitious thought patterns and holding to traditional beliefs against evidence. These people often have strong egocentric patterns of thought that lead to manipulative conduct. But that is only the statistical majority and each person needs to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Some people wind up in prison even though they don't have the general personality common to the majority of criminals. Unfortunately, they have to adapt to the situation they find themselves in and, as you noted, pick up "bad habits" to survive. Our penal system is not our most laudable institutions at the moment. I'm sure we both could share horror stories.  

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Permalink Reply by Judith van der Roos on September 18, 2012 at 5:47pm

Yes there are a lot of bad habits one can pick when living amongst a den if thieves, that certainly explains all those amoral trading floor workers in banks !

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Permalink Reply by Gregg R Thomas on September 17, 2012 at 1:25pm

You ask:
"Do you think it is harder for someone with criminal history to get accepted in an atheist community or a Christian community?"

It would depend on the individuals within the particular "community". A person who has been convicted a criminal act will have a more difficult time then someone who hasn't been convicted of a criminal act in any "community".

Theists and Atheists are still people and carry their own individual viewpoints with regard to accepting others.

If you are looking for a way to point to one group as more accepting then the other, this path is a dead end.
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You ask:
"If so is that a good thing or a bad thing and why?"

Good or bad for who?
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You ask:
"Do you think in an atheist community it is best not to talk about your dark past? Does it depend on the crime?"

No matter what type of community it will always depend upon who you are talking to and your relationship with them. Their mindset about "the crime" will always inform their response.

You ask:
"Do you know anyone who has turned their life around with reason instead of faith?"

All decisions we make are made thru reasoned thoughts, we have no choice (our brains are wired that way), for some faith in a supernatural source is a valid reason, for others it isn't.

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Permalink Reply by Pope OoO (Out of Order) on September 17, 2012 at 3:55pm

Interesting topic. I'd speculate that criminal behavior was quelled much more quickly back in our band/tribal days, because evading detection and consequences was probably pretty difficult. I'll bet that a higher percentage of population can become criminals in larger societies as a result of being able to behave anonymously and covertly for long periods of time. When the concept of God enters the equation, more people feel "watched" and subject to possible consequences. So I'd guess that religion usually plays a more effective role than atheism in reducing criminal behavior.

I know that sounds discouraging, but maybe society will evolve better ways to detect and reduce criminal behavior. Maybe it'll be possible to make potential renegades feel more positively engaged with society at large, and feel more responsible to the society, without brainwashing them with God talk.

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Permalink Reply by Pope OoO (Out of Order) on September 17, 2012 at 4:29pm

Just realized I didn't answer the question.

So paragraph 3 above would be:

Atheists have not yet created an institution (e.g. church) to "process" anyone, much less criminals, so I don't think we have enough cohesive support in place yet to effectively rehabilitate or help prevent criminal behavior. (Ouch!)

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Permalink Reply by Simon Paynton on September 17, 2012 at 6:07pm

@ Pope Paul -

"Maybe it'll be possible to make potential renegades feel more positively engaged with society at large, and feel more responsible to the society, without brainwashing them with God talk."

Somehow or other. I think this is a crucial point. It's often said that in smaller communities there tends to be much less crime, and this would appear to be because we have to get on with our neighbours. If our neighbours are always changing, there's less incentive to behave well. Ultimately I think people have to be responsible to themselves and to the well-being of their own lives. If somebody is an out-and-out loner, then people are suspicious of loners, and they are under pressure to behave well because of this. We all live around people, and if we don't, it doesn't matter how we behave, morally speaking, because morality is a social issue.

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on September 17, 2012 at 6:20pm

RE: "in smaller communities there tends to be much less crime" - there are also studies out that indicate that one reaction to overcrowding is aberrant behavior.

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Permalink Reply by Simon Paynton on September 17, 2012 at 6:30pm

It's true that a small community can be claustrophobic, for precisely the same reasons that there may be less crime, and therefore, uncomfortable.

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