What is your opinion on how the world came to be? Evolution, God, what?

 I was raised that God created the earth in 6 days... that seems silly to me, but Evolution seems a bit too out there too. What's your take?

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Or that the sun is bigger than the earth.  And that the earth goes round the sun.  None of that would have been beyond the pink apes' grasp. 

Actually, they would have understood the statements...but probably would have refused to believe them.

Precisely - that is not a complex concept to grasp. Even my 4 year old understands the Earth is round not flat (although probably doesn't appreciate all the subtle implications of that fact - he just understands that if you can sail a boat round the world and get back to where you started it can't be flat).

Revelations could have been a whole lot more convincing (in the long term) if He wanted them to be. Or Muhammad's cave hallucinations. 

Hi Jeff,

I understand your analogy with the bloke's granddaughter but I don't think it applies here. God didn't need to "dumb down" the information so people back then could understand it. We are talking about people from 2000 years ago, not the first species to develop a fore-brain. Many great thinkers had already lived before the Bible was written. 

People back then were ignorant (compared with now) not because they didn't have the capacity to understand but because they didn't have the knowledge. God could have provided them with it. Why should he have done this? Because if he had the knowledge and chose to withhold it he deliberately kept the people in a state of ignorance where superstition and prejudice could flourish. That seems a cruel thing to do for a loving God.

I just wish archeologists would look harder for FSM's book... or maybe it's a DVD. Now that could be evidence, written by FSM herself, saved for a more educated population that could understand it!

In fact...you're onto something here. If you follow this to its logical conclusion..the answer is right in front of you. The creation myth shouldn't be taken literally but as a sort of metaphore. God is also a metaphor. He doesn't literally exist. He is a fictionalised form of imperfect man, his vanity and need for approval, constant tempertantrums, need to control the lives of others (especially their sexual lives), his cruelty and his insanity. Don't forget mans sexism, racism and homophobia. And then occasional love. And then feeling so bad for his horrid past...sends a scapegoat to be butchered for his ongoing sense of guilt and self pity. Its all just metaphors. A brilliant fictional literary device. Pretty helarious how millions have taken it so seriously eh?

What about mans sexism, racism, and homophobia? Are you attributing those things to Christians? There are always some (or even a lot) of Christians who do have those characteristics, but it is unfair for atheists to generalize.

Jeff you silly...its the book that is full of hate and cruelty...not Christians. Pay attention. Read the first five books of the bible. It is a summary of pre-secularised-humanist man. The people who wrote it projected all of mankind's failings onto one monstrous fictional character called God. The things he does in the first five books of thenbible are as obscene as the things man has done during war and how man has horribly abused one another. Its all there. Every horrible thing man has done over the centuries is something God does in Leviticus or Genesis. Man controlled one another, enslaved, committed mass murder, tortured, forced others to believe their supernatural fantasies, thought control, rape, gory death. God did it all (just as man has) and held back women and entire races of people and homos and nonbelievers for centuries. Its just a made up book only one characrer is really mankind...as a bearded man in the sky. The only difference between God and Darth Vader...is that millions of people don't realise God is a projection of imperfect man.

I'm not attacking Christians. They didn't write the books. One piece of literature is no different than another. I'm ridiculing those who take the book literally...and think that God is anything more than a representation of humanity with all its power hungry vengeful hateful hissy fits countering the bipolarity with occasional love and scapegoats and peace offerings. Its hilarious...super hilarious people think that fictional bearded man in the sky is real. Christians aren't necessarily homophobic sexist haters (though a whole lot are). Its the people who write the silly book centuries ago who were.

Well said, Davis. Deserves a secular Amen...

I hope you have learned something from the videos I posted. The problem for Muslims and Christians is that Evolution negates the creation story of Adam and Eve. While the Theory of Evolution only explains how life forms adapted to changes via natural selection over time, it does not attempt to explain how life first began on Earth.

The study of how life started is known as Abiogenesis. Whether a god created life, whether it was formed in a hot puddle of mud or whether it came from a comet in the form of organic material is irrelevant to the fact that Evolution is what has given rise to all the variety of life on Earth.

We know that all life on Earth is genetically related. We know humans share a common ancestry with other primates. We evolved from the same distant ancestors as chimpanzees did before branching off on the Tree of Life to become a separate and distinct species while remaining genetically almost identical.

It is because we are an evolved species that we could not have been created in the “forms” that any creation Holy Book myth writes about. It means there was no Adam and no Eve. This is the problem that YEC’s have with Biblical literalism. The Book of Genesis cannot therefore be correct. A God did not create the first humans because the first humans were never created. They evolved from other species that existed beforehand.

If Genesis is not the correct history of our origins then why insist the rest of it is correct?

I genuinely feel saddened meeting YEC’s because I know they have been misinformed all of their lives by people who claim an authority to teach them. I know for a fact that some of the publishers of Creationist literature produced for schools in Texas know that what they are printing for school children is bullshit. I have discussed this in person on more than one occasion with people who know this to be factually correct. Yet they continue to publish this rubbish because they are well paid for it even though they claim to be Christians.

Why would anyone accept a person with no scientific qualifications to be factually correct while dismissing someone trained for years in the subject? The reason is some people have being indoctrinated while others have been educated on the subject of Evolution.

Evolution has nothing to do with origins.

I have no clue how it happened, if it eternal...

Understanding evolution helps us understand how pathogens become resistant to drugs, knowing where to find fossils in specific epochs or geography, knowing how to breed, say, fruit flies or mammals for doing research on diseases like Parkinson or cancer, or how environmental changes affect populations of species. It's not just about trying to explain life without God, but just saying God did it doesn't help science one bit. Most importantly, science doesn't even try to answer any questions about God... it's only religious literalists that become enemies to science because they cannot question their own faith.

Science always questions and corrects itself. It's never perfect, but it keeps getting better, like now we can even edit genes, or take genes from one plant or animal for good use in another plant or animal. We've learned how to control mutations (e.g. by using modified viruses), and watch... now making a Zika virus vaccination is becoming a project. We'll probably succeed at it because we understand sciences like evolution, and it wouldn't even be remotely possible just by praying to God for it.

They say God is perfect. Now, scientists say their sciences are not perfect and will always be adjusted according to new discoveries, and it's changing the world faster and faster. It doesn't matter if evolutionary theory is incomplete or wrong in some cases. What matters is that we understand it well enough to make it work for us, just like practically any other science.

Same for the science of cosmology, which is unrelated to the science of the evolution of life. We only know a tiny fraction of what's possible to know about the universe, yet we've just discovered gravity waves, which was no more than a scientific prediction a year ago. God did not help us discover these things, much less explain any of these things in scripture. That doesn't mean that God doesn't exist. It only means that if God exists, he made it so that science was the only way to discover these things. (Whoops, I meant to say "She" there, just to try to balance out all our male-written scriptures.)


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