According to Trevor the reason I am unable to know his God is because I am cut off from him by my sin.

The only reason you do not know or experience or communicate with God is that you are cut off from Him by your sin…..

I am then informed that if I become a Christian and am cleansed of my sin problem that I will come to know God.

If you became a Christian and had your sin problem removed that would change.

I would be interested in knowing this God. What is the sin that I am committing that is not allowing me to experience this God. Can some Christian please tell me how to remove it? What do I need to do to? What can you show me to make me believe what you are telling me is true?

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If someone as amazing as you is a sinner, then Lord help us! LOL!!!!

Ah, thanks Belle, I suspect the “sin” is that of denying their god in my heart. I am not. I know nothing of their God just as they know nothing about Lono, the Polynesian god of the heavens. I just don’t belief them. It all sounds too incredible to me.

I am asking them to teach me about their God so I can come to believe what they saying might indeed be true. Maybe my disbelief is wrong. I “know” no better. I have nothing to start with. I have opened a post on an atheist site for believers to explain it to us. What more can I do?

Guys, just remember I am not allowing a reprint of the Bible. Please just explain who or what your God is to start with so that I my come to know Him too.

For atheists, this is just super-annoying.  There's no possible way we can argue against being labelled "bad" for not believing in God, loving God with all our hearts, all that fanny.  The point is, it's immoral not to believe in God, full stop.  A dead end, a clash of ideologies. 

The result is somewhat exclusive and anti-life in my opinion and it's something that's really wrong with Christianity.  We could say, they love being superior to the rest of us, and that's probably true, but they didn't invent it, there's ample justification for this view in the Bible it seems.  So - fuck 'em, just fuck 'em.  Let them call us bad if they want, they can kiss my little

In what ways do you think it to be exclusive and anti-life? 

You can't label all Christians as feeling superior to other people any more than someone could label all atheists as immoral. With limited understanding of what the Bible actually says, it is understandable to think that Christians must feel superior. But if you actually read the Bible, it is clear that this is not the case at all.


"...if you actually read the Bible, it is clear..." 

Unless you ask two christians at the same time. (snick...snick)

BTW Tell me again, how clear is mud?

If you're just going to insult me then don't bother commenting.

"If you're just going to insult me..."

Jeff I haven't intentionally insulted YOU yet.  I have clearly insulted your misguided ideology and your holy book.  However you have my permission to insult me, my ideology or the color of my underwear (black with a slight brown streak) all that you wish.

"then don't bother commenting." 

Jeff, the following line IS directly at you on a personal level.

Who put you in charge of the dialog or who gets to speak next?

Jeff, this is a discussion, where religious claims come to die, is it your religious upbringing that leads you to the conclusion that only your voice gets to have a platform?

Alas Jeff that just isn't the case in a Free-thought Forum,everyone gets to speak and be heard.



"Everyone gets to speak and be heard." 

I agree. But you can have both sides speak and be heard while both sides are being respectful of the other person's views. Was that really too much to hope for?

Jeff - you are on an atheist forum. You are clearly not an atheist. The facts that you are being listened to and responded to are in themselves a form of respect.

Imagine if I were to go and sit in a church pew on a Sunday, and start telling people there of my perfect atheism, entering into dialogues with those of religious persuasion and trying to assert that their god is an invention, an imaginary being. It may be the truth in my eyes, but it would not be the right place for me to express it.

Here you are, on an atheist forum, doing the converse of my imagined action above, and yet you are being entertained by our members, and your points are being disseminated - you may not like the disseminations, but they are being presented to you in logical formats.

This isn't a "both sides" forum. It's an atheist forum. If you don't like atheistic opinions, however they may be presented, it's probably not the best forum for you.

You are still welcome to post here, but to be honest, the level of respect your theistic opinions are owed is about zero. Why? Because it's an atheist site.

Be honest. What was the purpose you had in mind when you decided to join?

@Jeff - that is too much to hope for, and you can't expect it - we respect people but not views.  We subject views to scrutiny and expect justification and evidence. 

So, we may knock your views down and trample all over them, somewhat brutally at times, but we'll aim to treat you with respect as a human being. 

In other words, this is what ISIS think, and it's just too tiresome for supposedly modern people still to be thinking like this. 

"In what ways do you think it to be exclusive and anti-life"

- because "God only loves you if you're a Christian", with all the privileges that that entails. 

"You can't label all Christians as feeling superior to other people"

- not really, it's just a supposation.  Is it not true, that the Bible is full of justications for the position that God only loves you if you're a Christian? 

Now you are overgeneralising Christianity. The only thing Christians have in common is the belief in a specific improbable supernatural phenomena, that there is an afterlife, accepting that some magical person died for their sins and that morality can in some way be derrived from an ancient book and or the customs of other skygod believers.

None of this infers being arrogant, having a superiority complex, hating non believers or oppressing people. When Christians have real political power this may become ratherncommon amongst sky god believers but they are not atheist haters no more than all Christians sing African American gospel music.


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