Ho fucking ho

A devout Christian teacher has lost her job after discussing her faith with
a mother and her sick child and offering to pray for them.

Olive Jones, a 54-year-old mother of two, who taught maths to children too ill to attend school, was dismissed following a complaint from the girl’s mother. She was visiting the home of the child when she spoke about her belief in miracles and asked whether she could say a prayer, but when the mother indicated they were not believers she did not go ahead.

Mrs Jones was then called in by her managers who, she says, told her that sharing her faith with a child could be deemed to be bullying and informed her that her services were no longer required.

Her dismissal has outraged Christian groups, who say new equality regulations are driving Christianity to the margins of society.

They said the case echoed that of community nurse Caroline Petrie, who was suspended last December after offering to pray for a patient but who was later reinstated after a national outcry.

Coincidentally, Mrs Petrie lives nearby and has been a friend of Mrs Jones for some years. Mrs Jones, whose youngest son is a Royal Marine who has served in Afghanistan, said she was merely trying to offer comfort and encouragement and only later realised her words had caused distress, for which she is apologetic.

The softly spoken teacher, who has more than 20 years’ experience, said she was ‘devastated’ by the decision to end her employment, which she said was ‘completely disproportionate’.

She said she had been made to feel like a ‘criminal’, and claimed that Christians were being persecuted because of ‘political correctness’.

Speaking at her home in Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, she said: ‘Teaching was my dream from the age of 16. It is as if 20 years of my work, which I was passionate about, has gone. It is like a grief.

‘I have been sleeping badly and been in a daze. I haven’t even got around to putting up a Christmas tree or decorations. So much for Christmas cheer.’

'Twenty years of work is gone. I feel grief'

Mrs Jones shares her comfortable four-bedroom house with her husband Peter, who is also a teacher and heads the maths department at a local state secondary school.

The house provides few clues about her strong beliefs. There is a small wooden cross on one wall, a few plaques carrying religious texts, and some Bibles in the sitting room which she used in her studies for a diploma at the Pentecostal Carmel Bible College in Bristol.

She is a regular churchgoer, attending her local Church of England church most Sundays, but she also occasionally opts for more lively evangelical worship at the college.

After training to be a teacher at Aberystwyth University, where she met her husband, and a period bringing up her children – student Rob, 24, and soldier James, 23 – she returned to teaching in state secondary schools and sixth-form colleges.
Oak Hill Short Stay School

Oak Hill Short Stay School where Olive Jones worked. She lost her job after offering to pray for a sick child

Wanting to concentrate more on family life, she began a part-time job more than four years ago at the Oak Hill Short Stay School and Tuition Service North, which caters for children with illness or behavioural difficulties.

She had no formal contract but was scheduled to work to a timetable for about 12 hours a week at the school in a converted bungalow and one-storey prefabricated block in nearby Nailsea.

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She prepared lessons, taught and marked work for about six children between 11 and 16 who had problems ranging from leukaemia to Attention Deficit Disorder. In reality, however, pupils were frequently unavailable for lessons, and she says she often
found herself working as little as 20 hours a month.

As she was technically a supply teacher, she was paid £25 an hour plus mileage and had to submit a timesheet. While she was working, she was paid about £700 a month before tax and pension contributions by North Somerset Council, and received payslips.

Occasionally she would teach one or two sick children at their homes, and from September she made half-a-dozen visits to one child in a middle-class area who she was tutoring in GCSE maths.
Proud: Olive Jones with her Marine son James

Proud: Olive Jones with her Marine son James

On the fourth visit the girl stayed in her bedroom because she did not feel well enough for lessons, so Mrs Jones chatted to her mother and raised the subject of her faith, saying she believed God had saved her life.

The teacher said when she was a teenager she had been driving a tractor on the family farm near Carmarthen in Wales when it slid down a slope but came to a halt just before tipping over.

‘I shut my eyes and thought I was going to die,’ said Mrs Jones. ‘Then there was a sound of a rushing wind, like that described in the Bible, and then total stillness.

‘I was convinced it was a miracle. I shared my testimony to encourage the mother to believe that there is a God who answers prayer. I believe I have a personal relationship with God, who is a constant source of strength.’

'I was a total wreck, shaking and in shock'

Unbeknown to Mrs Jones, the mother complained about her comments to health authorities in the mistaken belief that they were her employers. It appears, however, that these criticisms were not passed on to Mrs Jones.

Unaware that there were any problems, Mrs Jones’s fifth lesson with the child passed without incident, but when she returned for her sixth session towards the end of last month, things went awry.

She said that although the girl came downstairs in her dressing gown, she could not face a lesson, so the three of them chatted over cups of tea about books they were reading. Mrs Jones once again referred to the incident involving the tractor and spoke about her belief in Heaven.

‘I told them there were people praying for them, and I asked the child if I could pray for her,’ said Mrs Jones.
Nurse Caroline Petrie

Nurse Caroline Petrie, who was suspended for offering to pray for a patient. She was reinstated after a national outcry

‘She looked at her mother, who said, “We come from a family who do not believe”, so I did not pray.

‘I asked the mother if she wanted me to cancel the next lesson as her daughter had not been feeling up to maths, but she said no.’

She left on what she thought were good terms and returned to the unit to do some more work, but within a few hours she was told that the head of the unit, Kaye Palmer-Greene, wanted to see her in her office.

‘I suspected it must be serious as Kaye did not normally see people without an appointment,’ said Mrs Jones. ‘When I got to her office I was told to wait outside.

‘Then the unit co-ordinator Karen Robinson came out and said I would have to come back later. I could tell by her face I was in big trouble.

‘I asked her if I was being sacked but she refused to comment. I drove to a Tesco car park and sat in the car and called a few friends to ask them to pray.’

About an hour-and-a-half later she was told she could go back to the office, and she went in holding a Bible. ‘You could feel the tension in air,’ she said. ‘I was so frightened I could hardly breathe.

‘I was a total wreck. I was shaking and in shock. I had never experienced anything like this before. I had a faultless record. It was horrible, one of the worst experiences of my life.

‘They were very strict and firm. Kaye was mostly silent while Karen read comments from the parent from a sheet of A4 paper. One thing the parent said was that I had demanded a cup of tea, which I hadn’t.

‘Then she said that my testimony and mention of prayer had distressed her and her daughter, and she didn’t want me to tutor in their home again. Obviously, if I had known she was upset when I had first mentioned my testimony I would never have brought it up again. But I had no idea.

‘I don’t push my beliefs down other people’s throats, and I apologise for any unintentional distress I may have caused.’

Mrs Jones said that during the meeting Ms Robinson told her that talking about faith issues in the house of a pupil could be regarded as bullying.

Ms Robinson also asked Mrs Jones why she had ignored her advice not to pray or speak about her faith at work, a reference to an occasion three years ago when the teacher had prayed for a girl with period pains.

'A caring, honest and lovely person'

The girl appears to have complained and Ms Robinson had told Mrs Jones to be more professional, but Mrs Jones said there had been no written warning.

‘Karen then said I had been an exemplary maths teacher, but my services were no longer required. As I had no contract, they could tell me to go just like that.

‘They also told me that had I been on a contract, I could be facing disciplinary proceedings. But they never told me the grounds for that.’

Mrs Jones was advised by a friend to contact the Christian Legal Centre, an independent group of lawyers funded by public donations that defends Christians in legal difficulties.

‘I am not angry with my bosses, as they are trying to interpret new equality and diversity policies,’ she said. ‘But I am angry with the politically-correct system and about the fact that you can’t mention anything to do with faith to people who might find it of use.
‘My main concern is the interpretation of the policies concerned, which seem very ambiguous.

‘An atheist may think that you shouldn’t speak about anything to do with faith to students if it is not your specialist area, but it is not really clear.

‘It is as if my freedom of speech is being restricted. I feel I am being persecuted for speaking about my faith in a country that is supposed to be Christian.

‘I feel if I had spoken about almost any other topic I would have been fine but Christianity is seen as a no-go area. It felt as if I was being treated as a criminal. It is like a bad dream that had come true.’

She said that although she was clear that she had been sacked, she had recently been approached by a senior education official who had said the complaint was still being investigated and had suggested a meeting.

She said she believed the approach had been triggered by the involvement of the Christian Legal Centre, and she was now taking legal advice about how to proceed.

Andrea Williams, a lawyer and director of the Christian Legal Centre, said: ‘The story of Olive Jones is sadly becoming all too familiar in this country. It is the result of a heavy-handed so-called equalities agenda that discriminates against Christians and seeks to eliminate Christian expression from the public square.

‘Olive Jones had compassion for her pupil and finds herself without a job because she expressed the hope that comes with faith. It is time for a common sense approach to be restored in all these matters.’

She said that although Mrs Jones was not on a contract and had occasionally taken time out from her teaching duties during term time, the Centre would argue that she had effectively worked continuously for the unit for nearly five years and should have had some protection under employment law.

Mrs Williams said the human rights lawyer Paul Diamond – who represented Heathrow check-in worker Nadia Eweida, who in 2006 was banned from wearing a cross around her neck – had been instructed in the case.

Nurse Caroline Petrie described Mrs Jones, whom she met through her church more than four years ago, as a ‘caring, honest and lovely person’ whose gentle voice and manner were perfect for dealing with sick children.

She said she had been shocked that the teacher had been dismissed without being allowed to consult a lawyer first.

Nick Yates, a spokesman for North Somerset Council, said: ‘Olive Jones has worked as a supply teacher, working with the North Somerset Tuition service. A complaint has been made by a parent regarding Olive. This complaint is being investigated.

‘To complete the investigation we need to speak to Olive and we have offered her a number of dates so this can happen. At the moment we are waiting for her to let us know which date is convenient for her.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1237204/Christian-teacher-l...

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lets agree to disagree then, however i stand by my own opinion of the xtain getting the sack.


take care
The problem is stuff like this that makes us the most hated minority in America.

I look at intent. Most people you're going to come across in this country at least /appreciate/ a prayer. Most of them even believe in that shit. If she offered a prayer, in goodwill and desire (no matter how deluded) to help, and the family declined. It wasn't brought up again from what I can tell.

Only problem I can see was that it was apparently enough of an issue for the parents to complain about it. Maybe they just said something to make sure it didn't happen again. The thing is we don't know.

If the teacher was being insistent, or had been warned in the past about this, then yes, she should have been sacked.

If this was a first time offence, as the article makes it seem, then /no/, she should not have.

If we throw a screaming hissy-fit every time some religious person offers to pray for us or our children as an act of goodwill, for strength, to recover from a disease, for better luck to come our way, then we will continue to be despised by everyone. Our presense is being made known, and people are starting to learn that not everyone wants to be prayed for. Go on being offended when someone is being rude and trying to claim a moral high ground, but if someone is being kind and sincere it is simply rude to meet their kindness with hostility. When people offer to pray for me I simply tell them, "thank you for the offer, but I'm not religious".

I have Multiple Sclerosis. I live in the American Deep South. 90% of my acquaintances and about 40% of my friends are very religious. If I met every offer of prayer for my disease with hostility I probably wouldn't have any friends or acquaintances left.

One motto we can all live by is to "seek first to understand". That goes for everyone.

I'll agree to disagree with you, but I'll continue in my belief that you're wrong, dangerously wrong. In fact, when people react the way that you do towards an act of good will it is the very reason that people don't understand why I bother to associate myself with the "atheism movement."
I agree with others that this was too severe a punishment. The parents should have asked her to stop talking about religion when she first brought it up, and then complained if it happened again.

My department head is very religious and when my husband was in the hospital not long ago, he called me into his office, shut the door, came and stood next to me and told me he wanted to offer a prayer for my husband. I was honestly, shocked and hadn't expected it and didn't know exactly how to react. I remember feeling very uncomfortable. He took my hands in his and prayed out loud for my husband to make a full recovery "in Jesus' name." I didn't say anything during or after the prayer...no "Amen" or anything, and just said a quick "thank you" and left the office!

I sat in my office for awhile afterward wondering if I should have done anything differently. If there is a next time, I believe I'll be more prepared and will tell him that I appreciate his prayers and good wishes, but as a non-believer it would make me uncomfortable to participate in a shared prayer. I honestly don't mind at all for people to tell me they are "praying" for me or my family. I take it as a gesture and communication of good will.
here is the difference, your boss does not have the oppertunity of effecting how your husband thinks, the so called professional in question, wee poor olive was testing the waters here. she deserved the sack.
I would take it as a gesture of insanity - who knows what a power crazy loon like this will do next as he/she feeds off the pleasure taken in doling out the favours of a so called supreme being...
I agree that it was good she stopped after finding out they were non-believers. She should have been given a written reprimand and kept your job.

I think the Christians defending her would have a different opinion if it was a Muslim teacher asking to pray for a child.
I agree with you James, she should have been reprimanded but not fired. What does this say about our society we have to watch every little thing that we say or do? It's just like those two lesbian teachers being fired for their behavior. What they did may not be appropriate, but it's not something they should be fired for it.
The sentence from the Daily Mail article I find most interesting: "Coincidentally, Mrs Petrie lives nearby and has been a friend of Mrs Jones for some years."

Seems to me she may have been fully aware of the potential consequences of her actions. Is this an intended outcome?
yes I see it now.
I think when her whole job is to teach only to severely ill kids, and she asks to pray for the kid, it's a little different than any random religious person asking if he/she can pray for the kid. Because this teacher is perhaps expected to not bring up and remind the kid or his/her parents about the illness, but instead teach, and give a hopeful outlook that maybe the kid will get better and therefore need to know everything that a healthy kid who was able to go to school would know. But maybe that's just me. I mean whether she should have gotten fired or not is a different question. But whether or not she was wrong to even ask... idk. I kinda think she was wrong. It was unfair especially to the non-believing parents.
Insufficient data for a solid opinion on this, but I do have a few points.

If the sole event was her offering to pray, being told no, and then not pushing it further, then it was overly severe. However, she had been told not to bring up her faith at work previously, and had done so twice with this particular student. (4th and 6th visits) Also, she said that there was no written warning, which leads me to suspect that there may have been verbal ones.

Now, as to the 4th visit, if the mother complained and said complaints were not passed on to the teacher, that is the fault of her supervisors, who should have made the complaints known to prevent further problems. I would not be surprised to find that the mother was under the belief that Mrs Jones had been told of the earlier complaint and was bringing up her religion in spite of it.

There does seem to be a goodly amount of 'poor persecuted me', but the article is clearly written with one side in mind and may be leaving out pertinent details. Mrs Jones' claim that she does not push her religion does seem at odds with her complaint about not being able to testify to people.
dave man, no second chances with this mob, come on man

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