New fodder for discussion:

I came across this post in a forum discussion and figured it might make for an interesting discussion topic:

“Atheist friends: tread carefully. When you claim superior "morality" to Christians, you are standing on moral and ethical ground carved out entirely by the Judeo-Christian God and worldview.

You take for granted that people understand that lying, killing, rape, and slavery are wrong. That is incorrect. Your understanding that those behaviors are unacceptable is based on the teaching of Christian morality, and its influence on its own culture and others.

It can honestly be said that atheists today who are against slavery, mistreatment of women, dishonesty, and war would almost certainly not have those beliefs had the Judeo-Christian God/worldview never existed. If anything, any similar moral beliefs you might have would be based on keeping social order and your moral appeals would be to the State, not to ideals of right and wrong.

Here's a simple morality test: are you in favor of abortion? Then chances are you would not have been an abolitionist in 1800 America. Your morality is probably based on pragmatism and self-interest, and your reasoning is then custom-fitted to the same.”

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Well, you see… what he’s really saying is that Christianity and its teachings is responsible for the moral view that rape, war, slavery, etc.  are wrong. No one would have ever thought that causing pain and suffering on others is a bad idea otherwise. Despite the contradictory evidence in the bible, Christians are responsible for solving all the problems of the world and we’d be lost without them. I must say that my lack of faith makes me want to go out and rape and pillage…

Must be nice to be so blissfully ignorant

The problem is more than that...their solace is at the price of ours.  Some of these people want to be leaders.  They evangelize.  They want to restrict my rights, and to a lesser extent, yours too.

This person would also have to assume that the rest of the world not in the west has not come to the understanding that killing, raping and slavery are wrong.

Then how do this person justify Western colonization, war, and the action of western corporations?

Such arrogance and ignorance.  I wonder if it's due to their own willful disregard for simple lessons on history and cultural studies...or was the standard of their education that poor?  Perhaps they were home-schooled...I hope!

You always have to bring your anti-west stigma to the plate, don't you?

This person would also have to assume that the rest of the world not in the west has not come to the understanding that killing, raping and slavery are wrong.

In fact, in the Islamic world all three are still accepted and is far too common unfortunately.

Would you say that the West was Xtian to a point where they killed each other over what version of xtianity was right? Xtian is Western culture to many and in the past at even a higher percentage than today. If they want to take the moral high ground based on Xtian values how do these folks justify western colonization, war and the action of the corporate west?

Yes, but that was in the past. We had a little something called the Dark Ages, Reformation, and Enlightenment periods. The west is run by secular governments and secularism is a core principle of today's western societies. Can't you see that?

We have evolved while the Islamic world has remained for the most part in the medieval ages. Let's get our thinking to the year 2011 as well. There is no longer colonization - please stop the delusion and madness.

Instead of madness realize that despite having had dark periods in its history, without the western value of independence and free thinking, the world would not have advanced and produced such brilliant minds as they have. In addition, the "capitalism" you despise is what has fueled this growth through competition and drive. The free market system is inherently democratic as people have choices to decide what to buy and not what to buy - unlike state controlled governments.

Sassan I no this can be hard at times but what I'm talking about is the Xtian moral position not current politics. The discussion is about how Xtian want to take the high ground on morality like their god invented it.
But you yourself equated "western culture" and Christianity as modern-day versions of the same thing. You are the one who made such an illogical leap to begin with.
What part of I'm not talking about current politics you don't understand? The discussion is about the idea Xtian morality is gold standard and invented it.
To be fair, you are mostly referring to the Old Testament in which modern day Christians generally don't adhere to.

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