If Islam is the definition of arrested sociological progression then catholicism is the definition of an organised terrorist organisation.

The catholic church has systematically intimidated and coerced and instilled fear in the victims of the criminal acts of it’s priests.

The church has coordinated and calculated a response motivated by goals that are religious or ideological in nature.

Tell me why the catholic church is not a terrorist organisation by definition.

 

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I would have thought the praying should happen before the operation and not after it?

As if it makes any difference whatsoever?

True for sure.

But it is hard to not be repulsed by the deliberate and calculated and cynical attempt to associate the 'recovery' with the prayer.

David:

You got a Somo Butt pic. Ick. :(

LOL. I went to Japan in January and watched the Sumo. Awesome.

Ewe...GROSS

And lobbyists cost much money. Does the Vatican pay for them?

"The provision of community programs by religious groups is never unconditional or free."

This is incorrect. I can say from personal and friends' experiences that Catholic Charities (at least) helped us for absolutely no cost, with no conditions (other than demonstration of need), and not even the mention of religion or God.

Even their facilities were barely marked with religious artifacts or symbology. The form I filled out to volunteer for them had no question or blank to fill wrt my religion or if I had a religion or belief. And it never came up in the interview. (And I was never asked to volunteer.)

There are two purposes behind the provision of these services.

The first is marketing. The second is profit.

A large part of the marketing is association. The church wants to associate itself with 'good causes'. The very fact you know who provided the service means it was not provided anonymously or without conditions.

If you can find me a church that provides a social service anonymously and without any conditions and for no profit then I will give that church my support.

Funny thing though, in my case. The only way they indicated to *me* who they are was via the standard, prerequisite form for volunteering for them. They are subject to community laws, after all, and must also be officially recorded as a non-profit org. They did not overtly market themselves to people receiving their charity.. at least in my anecdotal experiience. (I am open to your empirical data to the contrary.)

But yes, most people know their affiliation when they learn from someone else what their facilities are named on paper, and where those facilities are on a map. Even Google knows that basic shit, without Catholic Charities "marketing".

I think your requirement for genuine good will to be masked with painstaking anonymity is unreasonable.

In the past a friend of mine had put “atheist” on his admissions form.  When one of the Catholic nuns found out she had his bed moved so that he faced the dying effigy of Jesus on the cross. They refused to move him back. I heard about it so I came in to visit him and put a large printout of a pentagram on the floor by his bed and we started chanting “Lord Beelzebub please heal your servant so we may greater serve you”. I was asked to leave but refused to. I asked on what grounds and made it a case of religious discrimination. I said they were deliberately retarding my friend’s recovery with images on a dying man on a stick staring at him. It made him feel like vomiting and they had refused to relieve his pain by not moving him back. I went to the payphone (before cell phones) to call the police and local newspaper. By then security arrived who I threatened with a demonic curse of turning their shirts all pink. The patient in the other bed told me he was feeling better because “laughter is the best medicine”.  They relented and my friend was moved back. His doctor arrived and it was made clear to him that the nun was not to come near him again. (She was not nursing staff, she was only concerned with patients “spiritual health”). My friend made a full recovery after that.

You know why they call them nuns?  None today, none tomorrow!

Part of a recent job of mine was to improve a hospitals’ I.T. systems. I had to pass a prayer room setup for visitors, patients and staff. It is over one hundred years old (like some of their systems!!). It was off the main section of the hospital. Whenever I passed it I would jump as if I had received an electric shock. This really annoyed the guy I was working with. He kept telling me I was being childish but I could not help myself……Zap!!...Yikes….Zap!!.....Yikes……:-)

I would enjoy that, too... I might point at the room with one hand, put the other hand on his shoulder and squeeze it on each shock.

(For those not familiar with training in electrical fields, it is common to teach students to put one hand in their pocket when putting the other hand anywhere near high voltage, to prevent any stray electricity from crossing between one's arms, i.e. through one's heart. This is my obscure attempt to simulate an "inside joke", Reg.)

Indeed. I've mentioned this many times before. If the services offered have no ulterior motives per religion...then for the life of my I don't know why they call themselves "religious based charities" and why they generally tend to hire volunteers who are religious or even the right denomination.

It reminds me of the community service problem. Five people go volunteer at a post-partum-depression-awareness advocacy office. One is a volunteer who suffered post-partum-depression and wants to help other women deal with it. The other is a volunteer hoping to kill time and socialise with new people and three of them have been convicted of a petty crime and are fulfilling their quota of community service and one or two or all three will leave once their hours are filled up. That being said...their work and results are fairly similar (though when the community service people leave it may bring a sharp drop in efficacy and morale).

Question: Are religious people doing their christian duty to help out others like the first volunteer, the one passing time or the ones forced to do community service? Perhaps a mix of those? Perhaps something else? in any case, what does that say about their motives behind their volunteer work, the authenticity of caring and helping others,  who the work is being done for (mothers, God, the judge, themselves etc) and how one would answer to the question "Have I done my bit"?

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