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Permalink Reply by Unseen on April 8, 2017 at 11:29pm

If I bake a cake, what does my motive matter? Whether I intended to bake a good cake or it just turned out well even though I approached it halfheartedly is beside the point. Have the cake. Enjoy.

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Permalink Reply by Davis Goodman on April 9, 2017 at 11:58am

Yes Unseen, if you bake a cake the only thing you care about is having a good cake then yes it probably does't matter. That being said, if the cake was baked by a woman who baked it so she can raise funds at a church bake-off so people can stand outside an abortion clinic and shame those who go inside...it may not seem so simple...right...especially when comparing it to say, a mother who lovingly makes a birthday cake for her son's birthday party.

The focus here isn't the work being done but a claim made by those who say religion is responsible for a lot of good done in the world.  That the religious are more likely to do charitable things which suggests that the religious are more likely to want to do charitable things for people. That claim means more than just the good being done but also the intention behind it (and that's discounting all of the marketing and converting and religion advertising and only helping the religious and ideologically based charity).

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Permalink Reply by Unseen on April 9, 2017 at 12:08pm

We should praise good works and condemn bad works. We shouldn't condemn anything with a broad brush, but should show we see a comprehensive picture, or our views will be rejected out of hand.

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Permalink Reply by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on April 9, 2017 at 5:11am

I wonder if the Rape Victims of the Catholic Church call it a terrorist organisation?

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Permalink Reply by Unseen on April 9, 2017 at 11:23am

A pig's ear is a pig's ear by any other name.

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Permalink Reply by matt.clerke on April 9, 2017 at 7:06pm

I'd say it depends on the reason for the rapes... I doubt the children were raped to instil terror in the populace, considering how hard the church has tried to cover it up. Better to call it a paedophile ring, when one gets caught, it closes ranks and shuffles them away.

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Permalink Reply by Reg The Fronkey Farmer on April 9, 2017 at 8:04pm

The crimes may not have been instigated to instil terror. But most of the children were terrorized by what they were told would happen if they revealed any of it. I have had survivors tell me that they were told that “You will never see your family again” or “You will not be believed”. Many were deprived of food, affection or even warm clothing if they grew up in Catholic run institutions. They daily lives were overshadowed with a constant sense of foreboding that was deliberately engineered by Catholic priests and various other Catholic groups. They exercised total control by keeping the atmosphere of fear and dread alive. This was terrorism. Even if they were not being raped they still endured a childhood where violence from Christians was commonplace. I have seen it in their eyes and heard it in their voices. It is irrelevant to me if many of them are "good people". They should be leaving the Church and demand the organisation be disbanded. It is too depraved and ugly to be cleaned up or reformed. There are so many thousands of victims that the crimes against them should be seen as crimes against humanity.

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Permalink Reply by Gregg RThomas on April 11, 2017 at 11:36pm

Disband the Catholic Church.  That sounds like a stellar idea.

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Permalink Reply by Michael on April 9, 2017 at 8:11pm

It is written "judge them by their fruit", as such, we have no record of true Christianity since the first Century. This begs to question, when will they appear? When The EU unites with Russia and the Eastern Rite unites wiht the Latin Rite and the Jewish Temple is rebuilt as Putin and Trump are in favor with this, we shall see if the prophecies are true or forever hold their peace.

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