I just read an article on CBS news which is disgustingly full of deception and lies. 

It is entitled:  "Stephen Hawking bashes religion, but what does new paper say about God?"  Steven Hawking announced that there is no way there could be a creator of the universe.  The article can be found here: 





Also CBS had another deceptive news cast that made a little black boy appear to want to have a gun and be a criminal when he actually said he wanted to be a police officer but they cut that part out. Of course there is the Rupert Murdoch media empire, all of which I no longer view or take seriously.  The Washington Post is reaching the same lows of Fox News. 


What sources can we trust?  I have a few websites I go to for secular and unbiased news.  Does anyone else feel as if we are being filled with lies more and more and deceptive news? 



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Oh blimey, I'm a criminal then?

Oh no wait I remember it was a CCCP flag. I used it as a blanket to lie on for some welding underneath my old car.


What is the exact criteria they use to measure "free press"?

Their methodology is probably on their webpage.

justfuckinggoogleit.com ;-)

lol :)

It's an important question. If a reporter with Fox News finds out that Glenn Beck is a convicted paedophile and the reporter's boss says, "drop it", is this censorship or "free" press. Does it have to be the government that censors the news or does it count if the news is censored by people like Murdock with specific political barrows to push and the means to enact his policies by moulding public perceptions? Murdock would say he is perfectly "free" to publish whatever news he sees fit.

For the sake of humanity - I have no clue why some atheists are so pro-Palestinian. Just be pro-humanity. The reason there hasn't been peace in the region is because of failed leaders on the Palestinian side. Yaser Arafat failed the Palestinians and the Palestinians elected a terrorist organization as a government. :yawn:

Yes, the facts however point about 180 degrees in the other direction.

The most basic truth about the whole zionism deal is however that it is inherently racist and halfheartedly theocratic, doesn't fit in the world order or in any modern world order based on a humanist morality, which is the only kind of morality that is actually moral.

The Zionist ideal is a Jewish state (an Ashkenazi Jewish state in practice more like.) It has to be majority Jewish in order to even hold up the farce the outside world of being democratic. It used to be like lipstick on a pig, but even that mask - that needs quite an intensive propganda-effort and Lobbying support and Christian-Zionism theological/ ideological backing up - is dropping. But even if there were only a couple of Palestinians instead of more than 20% on Israeli territory proper, excluding occupied Palestine, they nevertheless institutionally discriminate between Jews and other subhumans.

This creates all the necessary room for quite important voices like Rabbi Osaida Ovaida Yosef who said that the non-Jews only exist to serve Jews and Israel and otherwise they should die. Or Rabbi Yitzak Shapira advocating among other goyim trash the killing of non-Jewish children who are in the way of Zionist goals with this asshole.

Israel needs to be a state like all other states, which should be based on citizenship and not whether or not you are a Jew. Like your rights as an American should be based on your citizenship as an American and not whether or not you are of European descent.  It should have a Constitution (it doesn't because it can't for this reason) that guarantees equal rights to all it's citizens and all the other attributes of a proper modern state.

If we are going to talk about the election of Hamas, pushed by the Bush administration then we are going to have a long talk about the catastrophic Israeli-American alliance and it's long list of successes of interventions to obstruct peace at each and every turn.

But the entire foundation is rotten. What we see now with the extreme right taking over Israel is the rot getting to the head.

1. Israel is a Jewish state and non-Jews have no immediate right to any citizenship as the whole point was for it to be an eternal home for the Jewish nation after having not had a home country for over 2000 years.

2. Most Palestinians used to have citizenship in either Trans-Jordan, Lebanon, Syria or Egypt, countries which have lost 2 wars of aggression and rightfully lost land to Israel. Palestinians have mostly lost these citizenships, and for some reason most of them want to live in Israel and not return to their native countries. You should be lobbying for every Palestinians to immediately be offered a US passport, it might solve much of the issues in the Levant.

3. There are plenty of Israeli/Jewish assholes. Just like any in other country. Should I judge all Americans upon the ranting and ravings of Glenn Beck?

4. Demanding a constitution in another country is US ethnocentrism at its worst. No, Israel does not need a constitution, neither does the UK for that matter.


Instead of involving youself into politics you don't seem to grasp, you should be lobbying for the US to be dismantled and every non-native american to be expelled. You are personally in much greater violation of human rights than any Israeli by living on land you have no historical right to be on. Also, this would mean dismantling the US constitution. :-)

And indeed - nearly 20% of Israeli citizens are Arab Muslims. Please show me an Islamic country where Jews would have the same rights as their counterparts.

You hit the nail on the head, that's exactly why, as I'm a staunch atheist i also happen to have strong humanist principles,and what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians these days is on par with what the Nazis did to the European Jews,and the Americans are sustaining it by using it's veto power every-time the rest of the world  fucking challenges it.The facts are out there,check out Noam Chomsky,Norman Finkelstein's book's on the subject,its all shocking.


What the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians these days is on par with what the Nazis did to the European Jews


Are you joking? Please tell me that you're joking. This is so far off the mark it's not even funny. In fact, it's disgusting and is the most offensive example of Godwin's Law that I've ever seen.


The last 3 Israeli Prime Ministers have worked towards a 2-state solution. Israel has given up more land than it can afford to in the name of peace, without being forced to.


Is the election of Hamas in the Gaza strip Israel's fault? Yes, I'd say, if it's not entirely their fault, they had a hand in it. The Gaza Blockade is undoubtedly an egregious human rights violation and needs to be ended entirely. Israel, however, is the only free state in the Middle East. No where else in that area of the world do people have the freedoms they do in Israel. Illegal expansion into non-Israeli territory is another violation that absolutely cannot be tolerated. On top of that, their policy of overreaction (they respond to a Quassam rocket attack which kills no one and does maybe a few hundred-thousand in property damage by doing millions in property damage and killing innocent civilians) needs to be changed, as well. There's no doubt that Israel is guilty of war-crimes that need to be assessed and penalized.


But to pretend to all the blame is on Israel and that the Palestinians themselves have done nothing wrong is idiotic, pathetic, and unjustifiable.


Arcus is absolutely right that the purpose of Israel is a home for the Jews. That's why it was started, that's why it exists, and that was the whole damn point. No matter your feelings on religion (and I hate religion and fully believe that, without religion, there'd be no conflict in the Middle East to begin with), Israel is, first and foremost, a Jewish state, and was created to serve that purpose.


Let's not forget that Israel has never been much larger than the state of Rhode Island, and yet, despite, has still willingly given up land in order to obtain peace. Let's also not forget that the Palestinian-hatred of Israel stems in large part from the Kuran and the historically anti-Jewish nature of Muhammed and his religion. Numerous fanatical Muslim leaders (including Hamas) have stated that they will not accept a 2-state solution; they want Israel gone and the Jews out of the Middle East entirely.


Let's also not forget that Jerusalem is traditionally seen as THE Jewish holy city, and Israel as the holy land God promised the Jews. As atheists, we (correctly) reject this idea. But the Jews have proven themselves as citizens of Israel, and if you really support giving Israel back to the Palestinians, then why do you not support giving back the US to the Native Americans, and the rest of us immigrants move back to where we came from (Europe, Mexico, Asia, etc)?


The Israelites have as much right to defend themselves from enemies as everyone else and, unlike the US, they actually have legitimate enemies.


The situation in the Middle East must, I'm afraid, be viewed from the fence. We cannot afford to "take sides". We must look at it purely objectively and look at the evil done by both sides in the conflict. If Israel is to blame, then so are the Palestinians.


Though, ultimately, we'd get a lot more done by recognizing and doing something about the true evil that started all of this and is the ultimate motivation for all of this: religion.


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