One thing that that really get's to me is theist who think they have the right to not be offended and all people who enable this behaviour.

I find it hard to find a theist who will have an open discussion about why they believe in a personal god at all or why they think their god is real and all the other ones aren't. Yesterday I remarked on the hypocritical nature of the followers of xtianity and was met with no argument as to why what I said was wrong but that it was rude. When I asked why it was considered rude I was told that I should have respect for peoples religion. I disagree, I'll respect your right to have religion, by all means believe whatever crackpot fairy tales you like  but if you are not willing to be offended and stand up for what you believe in then you need to take a serious look into why that is. 

Most of the theists I know don't argue because they do not even care weather or not their god exists, they go to church on Sunday and go about their lives as if they were Atheists. But I know there are theists out there who might care but are too afraid of being offended by talking to an evil non believer so they just tell you that you are rude.

Are people just being too polite or am i really too insensitive?

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they simply do not have the knowledge of faith nor the reasoning

knowledge/science of faith =  theology

Theology is the study of religions and religious practices.  Mixing the word 'science' in there doesn't give credibility to any of the particular religions studied.  It's interesting that you mix knowledge, science, and faith as if they are synonymous.  I'm not sure if you're communicating in an unfamiliar language, or being intentionally dishonest.

Atheism not at all indifferent towards god, atheism is quite adamant that god does not exist.

Atheism makes no claim; it is simply that those making a claim have not presented evidence to back it up.  As many times as this has been explained to you, you're making it clearer that you're intentionally dishonest.

From a Priest recently: "Hey, little boy, wanna try some sacramental wine?"

Hey Ray,

I would like to say that as a Catholic, I agree with much of what you say in this post.  Maybe offended is not the best word to describe it, but as you say, Christians should be ready and willing to stand up for what they believe to be true and should not brush aside arguement as simply rude and therefore not worth their time and effort.

Well, that's good. I can approach this two ways. Read my proofs and debunk them. Alternatively, you can read a good "deconversion script" at this forum, where I walk through a deconversion. Of course it isn't all that realistic because its a blog which attracts hostile adherents who like to disrupt, but you can still get a good idea of how it works there.

Most atheists don't give a hoot about deconversion but I really think that is what you're seeking here. Why don't we start a conversation here where I'll invite Christians like yourself to a discussion of this? I think it would be awesome! Bring along your Christian friends ... as many as you can. I could start the thread right away but without true Christians in it it will just be singing to the choir. Can you help me round them up?

- kk

Recognize the offense taken as a weakness, and more importantly as a need. The sensitivity is a sign that something is broken or missing inside the person. To "witness" too that person - to be an Ambassador of Atheism - you need to see that where you may not have intended offense, you can certainly address and perhaps help the person at least bolster their own faith so that they can weather superficial insults to it. They will (eventually) recognize that a non-believer opened that door for them and become more curious.

It sounds as if that is what is occurring to our dear reader Sarah. Most posters at this forum are quite polite. Sarah is in a discovery phase and realizes we are not evil monsters that her background may have cast us as. The occasional flamings here typically occur when a fundamentalist seeking some sort of personal glory comes in with motive to "spread the truth"... i.e. blab their absurd nonsense with the idea that it will be a ground-shaking event. I know it very well - I grew up in the SDA church and that was an activity that was promoted among our congregation (it isn't official doctrine BTW...).

What is missing from our community is a physical and philosophical presence. Despite the rest of the nonsense that goes with it, Church is a great support network for a variety of basic human needs. The emotional well being derived from it, and the ability to get help during tough times is something that people don't associate with our community and that is unfortunate. Religion is like a product. Unfortunately it is a necessary product for most people - being adrift in a dangerous world is not a good thing. Even if your guiding principles are mostly hooey and non-sense they are better than nothing.

If we want to stop being marginalized we need to step up and try to make a difference in people's perception of us by giving them a better product; and we DO have a better product. We have a world view that is more in line with reality. We have knowledge of medicine and science that can produce true benefits, not simply a euphoric distraction. We understand and accept ourselves for what we really are, rather than some broken, craven, sin-baby. Why wouldn't people want to live without that fear?


Hey Matt,

They are deeply emotionally invested in these beliefs. You are not in yours. This is why they get offended so easily and why it is hard for atheists to comprehend. I agree it is an over-reaction, but I think it is the nature of the brainwashing.

The question is, "would the world be a better place without religion"? If the answer is yes one might ask what the best way to achieve that would be.

I have two answers:

1.) A rigorous scientific education that includes mathematical literacy

2.) Overt deconversion

- kk

Hey Sarah,

I hear this very often from deconverts. Typically, from the first epiphany and serious conversations they have about atheism, like what you are beginning now, they seem to take a few months to get where it sounds like you want to be.

And can you really blame them? Religion is intensely emotional and the investment is huge and overwhelming. It touches every fiber of your being. Gradually, like any habit, these thoughts will fade and there will be this wonderful stage where you realize for the first time you are truly objective. And I mean truly objective. You are not atheist but you are also not an adherent. Then you know you'll never go back. You don't know what "kind" of atheism you're drifting toward, but you are drifting away from a faith-based belief system. If anything, deconverts should give themselves enough time to get to that point. If they want to go back they can.

- kk

I undersatnd what you are saying I too sometimes feel like I am bad or evil or that satan is attacking me and I have let him influence me..but then I always tell my self that is how sick religion is.. that is how bad its goten .....they say  we are not suppose to question it.. if we do we are going to hell and we are evill... and that helps me realize tha it cant be real...but thats me persoanlly thanks for shareing im glad im not the only one  

Of course you're not, David - there are thousands and thousands of you out there, and if you count Muslims who want to break free, possibly millions.

its hard but logic and reason .. are key .. but knowing how to approch the subject when talking to belivers is something we all need to  learn.. thanks!

i think that its the argument .  ... we need to find a good one... becuse .. its hard to argue with  them ..we need to find a good argument that we could use.. their argument is simple we already kno what it is (religous folks) .. .... I read some where that we shouldnt go after thier god but instead we should go after thier faith using the socratic method.... .me personally im tierd of discussing god with them but I have been going after disproving god and i think  thats where i went about it the wrong way going to try to go after thier faith .. instead... becuse iit does offend me too .... .  ... any ideas on good arguments... i have a few i read about

There are plenty of good arguments. I wouldn't even know where to start. I find it terribly easy to argue with "them" but impossible to get it to sink in. It takes time for someone to work through the arguments and come to reason.... and the person has to be willing to do so. 


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