One thing that that really get's to me is theist who think they have the right to not be offended and all people who enable this behaviour.
I find it hard to find a theist who will have an open discussion about why they believe in a personal god at all or why they think their god is real and all the other ones aren't. Yesterday I remarked on the hypocritical nature of the followers of xtianity and was met with no argument as to why what I said was wrong but that it was rude. When I asked why it was considered rude I was told that I should have respect for peoples religion. I disagree, I'll respect your right to have religion, by all means believe whatever crackpot fairy tales you like but if you are not willing to be offended and stand up for what you believe in then you need to take a serious look into why that is.
Most of the theists I know don't argue because they do not even care weather or not their god exists, they go to church on Sunday and go about their lives as if they were Atheists. But I know there are theists out there who might care but are too afraid of being offended by talking to an evil non believer so they just tell you that you are rude.
Are people just being too polite or am i really too insensitive?
as new commers we need examples becuse most faith based folks are passionate about thier fiath .. and if we dont approch it right it could blow up in our face.. and they will just think .... hey this devil dudes just trying to quesiton my faith .. what a jerk... hah
Ill give you an example one is to allow them to talk about their faith and let them tell you where it stems from it will usually be their parents or church ..then agree… you have to seem like you are genuine try to learn why they chose their religion … like Christianity …. After you here their case say I agree with you and if there is a god I would do as he said and would want to obey him to avoid going to hell…so im going to go with you that I belive you and there is a creator.. also I have to assume that this creator didn’t just create the universe then leave it up to us…... he is a communitive god.. he is a published author. one that has inspired humans to write text that tells his or her story… … right….. well also get them to agree that only one religion was inspired by the all mighty.. and all others come from no where but human minds imaged by humans..… … .lets be on their side say I agree. With you so far…. but hthen say how can re really tell that those religions were made up by a human.. since there are 1000’s of fake ones..
\\\\we have to come with a test for holly-ness or a test for lack of holly-ness…so lets look at some fake religions(non Christian) and find figure out that they are man made…first a fake story would have inaccurate base of earths layout… right… 2nd lets look to its orgins and see if it waspieced together its contents by previous earlier religions… so lets look at a fake one.. the greeks claim that sun god helius is pulling the sun across the sky and since we kno that suns stays stationary well we kno that religion is human made. Right? Yes… /.. then go into another and so one.. about how another was pieced together.. then once they agree that those are fake .. we talk about how .. then let then agree ..so a made up religion shows … cluelessness of the universe design .. 2nd records show that it at least barrowed some stuff from other religions .. and that how we can tell its man made.... … then ..now we go to Christianity.. .religion.... and say hey well ……(hahahah) the earth bound perspective in the bible dosnt show any knowledge of how; night and day come to be (the earth turning on its axis) .....also it refers to tiny stars.... and we now know that stars a billions of times bigger then our own planet.. no awareness that our planet moves at all in the bible….( the bible Is just like the other.s it shows a earth layout that is only known by ancient civilzations’)… then... go into how many stories... are barrowed in the bible... like the great flood.. stolen from india .. etc.
so no more arguing just asking questions this is the Socratic method somewhat . but we nee more of these ..
Ben, in most of my conversations with theists, it's not the person I'm debating with that I'm really communicating with-- It's the people sitting on the sidelines listening. I stay calm and friendly, and let my behavior and arguments contrast with those of the person I'm talking with.
The real fertile ground is with the bulk of theists who have more passive belief.
i totally agree. no christian knows why they believe what they do. "i have faith i have faith" okay, i have faith that the toothfairy exists. they need to grow up and realize that just because they feel something doesnt make it right.
Even though faith is not proof, it ties their emotions to their beliefs, and the more they invested in that belief, the stronger the bond. Simply telling them they are wrong, doesn't really work. The best we can do is show them the evidence against their belief, and hopefully they will do the rest.
they need to grow up and realize that just because they feel something doesnt make it right.
By looking at your profile picture on here, I would assume that is your boyfriend. Now, I also assume you love him. Love is a feeling, chemical reaction.
What would your reaction be if I told you that you don't love your boyfriend. That you need to grow up and realize that because you feel something, doesn't make it right.
You will argue that you do love him, and that you "know" you love him. Religion is a relationship... an invisible foursome if you will (You, Father, Son, Holy Ghost). Just like love, it is a feeling, and therefore cannot be argued like that. You will never convince someone that what they feel is wrong. You will have much more luck explaining to them why what they feel is misplaced, by showing them evidence that their belief holds no water when compared to real world evidence.
no, id tell you that your a retard my boyfriend is actually alive u can actually see him. theres proof that hes here. theres no proof whatsoever that god jesus or the fuckin toothfairy exists. that shouldnt even be compared to the situation. you can see my boyfriend. nobody EVER has seen jesus or god that we know of. if you cant see something. just feelings. all im saying is bring more to it than i have faith. faith dont mean crap. i have faith. i believe in and worship a gnome god. i dont see him. i feel him. everyday.regardless of what you tell a christian their still gonna say the same damn thing ive been there.
okay, well i can proove that i love him. and christians can proove that they love god. and? i never said anything about them not prooving their love. i said they cant proove he exists. if you feel such strong feeling for something you cant see, they can be worshipping the devil for all they know.
all im saying is their dumb for loving and believing without proof. thats all im saying. i love but i see. i love but i dont love something i dont see. they may feel his love and their love for him. but they cant proove anything. they cant proove that he is the source of what they feel. all they have to proove their love is "faith" okay. well i have proof for my love. if you saw us together you;d realize that. all christians have is a rumor from a book.
well, their retards. hypothetically if my nboyfriend wasnt real. then i'd be a retard too. a complete retard.
I agree 100% with everything you are saying, but what I am trying to get across is that to theists, their feeling of love for god is just as real as your feeling towards your boyfriend. And arguing against a feeling is damn near impossible, because to them, what love feels like, and what feels real might be completely different than what it means to you.
To call them retarded because of a feeling, is to call anyone else retarded because they feel differently than you about anything. Real or not. Feelings are way too personal to argue with facts, and especially insults. You will just give them more reason to turn to their comfort zone.
That is why I said, the best thing we can do is show them that their feeling is not wrong, but just misplaced. Instead of loving their imaginary friend, why not love themselves, and the rest of the world.
"And arguing against a feeling is damn near impossible,"
their retarded because they love with no proof. their retarded because when argued with they can never come back with an answer. their retarded because all they have to say is i have faith i have a feeling. i have feelings too. i have faith that a gnome god follows me around and protects me from harm all day. that doesnt mean hes real. we as humans feel all kinds of crap. thats all im saying. get some proof instead of i have a feeling. feelings dont mean crap.
if they want to worship something fine. but dont give us crap about our non belief in a god. my life is my life. if i want to worship fuckin santa clause its my right i can do whatever i want i dont have to answer to nobody escpecially a judgemental christian that thinks their god. what happened to the verse that says worry about yourself before worrying about everybody else. and when we stand up for ourselves all hell breakes loose. really. like we have proof what we believe all u got is some feeling.
you believe in something, i can too. just because you believe in something doesnt mean its the only right way. millions of people believe in different gods and christians are the main ones that try to control everybody cuz their arrogent and they think their god is so important hes the only way.
I don't pretend to have respect for religion. I do do my best to be respectful to people. If I'm not respectful then the dialogue stops and there is little potential for more conversation.
You might consider why you talk to people about their religion. Why argue?
There are 3 reasons to argue:
1) persuasion. (convincing someone to believe or do something)
2) Justification. (giving a reason to believe a conclusion)
3) explanation. (to fit a particular phenomenon into a general pattern in order to increase understanding.)
I might add with "explanation" all parties already agree on the conclusion.
If you are arguing just for the sake of offending someone then you are just being a jerk. It's the secular version of "You are a heathen and are going to hell." with out having any premises on why that is.
You see I don't like how religious people (christians in particular) act. I don't like their attitude and their dogma. I don't like the fact that they feel that they need to offend someone in the name of their god. For these reasons I refuse to act like them. I didn't become atheist only to keep practicing the ethics of the religious.